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Feb. 8, 2022

The $30,000 Dollar Podcast - 150 Million Net Worth at 30 Years Old | Matt Onofrio

The $30,000 Dollar Podcast - 150 Million Net Worth at 30 Years Old | Matt Onofrio

Matt Onofrio has acquired $150,000,000 in Net Worth in 4 Years. This wealth grows by $30,000 / Hour, which is the length of today's show.

Matt originally went to Medical school and became an practicing Anesthesiologist. He shortly realized afterwards though that this was not his path. He then decided he wanted to try real estate investing and found local mentors to help him take down a 14 unit apartment complex as his first deal. 
After this taste of success he became obsessed with commercial real estate and set off on a mission to buy 50 million dollars of commercial property as quickly as he could. He accomplished that in one year.

He now has over 150 million dollars in equity positions in commercial real estate across the country, giving him 7 figures in annual passive income. 

In today's episode learn how to:
-Get into Bigger rooms
-Kill Limiting beliefs
-how to approach commercial brokers
-How to structure debt and deals
-How to scale at rapid rate

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You have to be able to put boundaries around that. Okay, I'm going to create margin because during margin in those kind of magical moments when I travel, that's what I'm going to get a lot of ideas, or it makes you think through, how can I do? How can I do more with less so for me, I made a shift. At first it was like, I don't do deals under a million dollars, that it was 5 million. Now I don't do deals under $10 million. And all of a sudden, it compounds so I'm not going to do a deal where I can't increase my net worth by a million dollars. And I'm not going to do something that's under eight figures. Welcome to the action Academy podcast staring back while I celebrate freedom, the show where we help you achieve financial independence with the mindset methods and actionable steps from guests who've already earned their freedom, the freedom fly. Choose to do what you want, what do you want with who you want with who you want, when you want when you want with another episode today. Now, here's your host, Brian Luebben. Alright, everyone, this is not a drill. I need you to all remain calm, stay seated and buckle up for this episode of the action Academy podcast. I'm your host, as always Brian Luebben, bringing you the mindsets methods and actionable steps from guests who have already earned their freedom so that you can earn freedom in your life in business today. Please remember to keep your arms and legs and set the moving vehicle at all times. Because today's episode is a wild ride. It is a friggin roller coaster of life advice, business information and high level tactics and concepts from the one and only Matt Onofrio Matt went from $80,000 net worth four years ago to a net worth of $150 million today. Oh, and I also forgot to mention he's 30 years old. So that's also worth mentioning. So Matt started his career as an anesthesiologist that realized after all the years of medical school that this wasn't what his path was. And he ended up buying a 14 unit apartment complex after partnering with a mentor, and realized quickly that triple net leases in commercial real estate was going to be his niche in his passion. Matt then went on to acquire $150 million of cash flow in commercial real estate, and he is skyrocketing. So his goal is to be a billionaire within three years. And at this point, I don't think myself or anyone would disagree with that. So hey, you get another future billionaire on the show. As a preface to the episode, I'll kind of give you guys a breakdown of what to expect for the first 15 to 20 minutes, I just let Matt in 20 minutes spurt of just idea after idea bomb after bomb. Don't stop him. So you're gonna have to probably pause, rewind, take notes on that section, because there's a lot of great information and Matt just goes off of the RIP. And it's it's awesome to watch and it's awesome to listen to about minute 26 we start getting into triple net lease and the actual business side and the investing side. So stick around for that. In at the end, we finished with some good life advice and some practical knowledge for everyone to take and absorb. And before we begin the show, lastly, we have our scientific completely not made up fact of the week which is gentlemen, if you leave this podcast a rating and a review, you will increase two inches in height two inches in height. So if Brandon Turner is listening to this, maybe don't leave a rating and review but you know, fellas, two inches, two inches of height and go hurt anybody and ladies, if you if you give this a rating and a review your husband, your husband will get two inches height. So do with this information what you will out probably leave a rating and review. That's just me. Without any further ado, that honor for you. All right, Matt. We just prevented 20 minutes of pure gasoline fire from being lost in the stratosphere. I almost was selfish and just had a conversation with you off camera Off mic for a bit. But then I remembered that there are people Matt that we need to help today. That's right. That's right. And they're demanding, Matt, they're asking for Matt, so I have to oblige him. So good to be here, man. Yeah, it's fantastic to have you man. It's been awesome watching your journey and watching you go through this entire path that you've been doing. It's been amazing watching your trajectory. And as I have been doing all of my coaching work, and we can talk a little bit about coaching mentorship, my my skew of what is possible, and what is impossible is drastically changing on a week to week basis. Tell me about your relationship with possible and impossible what's even impossible anymore to you. I don't really think I think we're limitless beings. Right? So I think that there, there isn't anything that's impossible. I think it's more about some of that This some of the discussions, I've been thinking more about our values and purpose, because I think purpose is what drives you to do impossible things. So I think if you can connect with something deeper than numbers, and you can connect with kind of, one of the things we're working on in my business is core values. And some people blow these off, what are your core values as a person, and then what is your purpose and mission, and that'll lead you to be able to do those things. And I think for somebody, when you're setting goals, I think you have these certain stretch goals of like, Hey, I'm going to put out I'm going to find where my possible is. And then I'm going to stretch a little bit past that. So when you start, you may not want to put it out so far, you have to be able to connect with the goal. But it doesn't have to seem possible. It's all about belief in the mind. And imagination is a very powerful thing and something and you know, one of the books I love thinking Grow Rich is the subconscious, right? So you have to trick your subconscious into believing that it's possible. And even then it's like a present reality and identity. And so for me, one of the easiest ways that I've been able to do that is surround yourself with other people where they're like, oh, yeah, this is what I do, or this is who I am. For instance, there's different masterminds, right, you have a go abundance, kind of accredited investor level, then A champions at five, and then a tiger at 10, and then our 360 at 100. And was just very interesting as I would get into those groups, you just turn the temperature up on what you would think is possible. So that and I think that one year, you will overestimate what you can do. And you will underestimate what you can do in five years. So I feel like a three year target, when you're deciding whatever you're going to do is a really great time horizon to keep you engaged with your goals. Okay, so there's different levels of everything, right? So no matter who you are, there's someone a step, two steps, three steps, 10 Steps beneath you. That's like, holy crap, that guy's killing it. And so even amongst our group and go abundance, we have guys that are murdering it. We have guys that are growing million dollars a month, we have guys that are growing millions of dollars a year, you're growing millions of dollars a deal. And I know that we'll get into your backstory here, but the long and short of it is like how long has this relationship been with real estate? Three years, four years with you? With triple net real estate, it's May 16 2019. Who's keeping track that who's counting? Yeah, that's right. Three years. Okay. So three years? And then what's your balance sheet look like to the degree that you're comfortable with sharing? Of course. Yeah, I was in school when I started. So I had my first deal. I've had probably about $80,000. And I would say I'm somewhere north of 115 million right now. Well, obviously, you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth to start at 8000. So everything that you say from now is invalidated? Right? Right. Okay. So I'm setting the stage here for you listening. If you're listening in the car, buckle the seat belt a little bit tighter. Go get you another coffee, pause this right now grab another coffee, because you need to be fully clear and fully present for what we're about to get into the conversation. We're about to get into to set the stage for Matt here. If you didn't hear 80,000 net worth 250 million in four years. And you are how old? My friend 3030 30. Okay, cool. So we're talking about goal setting. And you've got David Osborne doing his goal setting. And he's the master of goal setting and blowing past limiting beliefs blowing past projections of what reality is a really want to stick here with you because you operate from an external viewpoint, very seamlessly, and fluid. And you seem to just blow past targets that people work their entire life to get to within a month. I really want to stick on this and figure out what it is that you do with any specific practices, resources mentorships that you had to get your mindset flexible, to allow for all of this abundance to come. Does any of that make sense to you? I'm hoping so. Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is you cast vision as a visionary. With my company. Now I have 12 staff, right? So to go from initially, you'll start doing deals, and there'll be transactional nature. And then when you get to people who create a lot of wealth, it's about growing a business and it's about now we've moved from an Eliana deal to EBITDA, and what is the valuation of a company? And you start to think how a business owner thinks. And I think for me, I set a dream and these goals and intentions, but then I would disconnect from it. So when I have roadblocks, you're gonna have read five today, right? It may seem seamless, but I think that problem solving if you can learn how to solve problems, right? It's that age old knowledge, money and hustle the three sides of the triangle. And one of the reason is I didn't have a lot of money when I started, but I had knowledge and hustle. There's bigger problems you can solve. The more the more well, you're going to be compensated. If you look at people like Jesse Itzler, right? He's married to Sara Blakely who just sold Spanx for Bill in dollars, or Jamie currently who just sold her skincare company for a billion dollars it's very interesting how they went and solved the problem he had next jet so instead of Brian a private plane that would give them subscription models or some of the abundance guys are going to go to Necker What did what did Richard Branson do? He went, and he saw this problem. And he created this idea of, I'm gonna rent a bunch of planes. And if it doesn't work, I'm just gonna give them all back. Right? It's brilliant. So for the Gabonese, guys, I think that you can set the dream and intention, but then you step back, and you're like, Okay, what problems do I have around me that I can start solving a lot of us are real estate related. But you start by having mentors for strategy. And a coach is for mindset, right? And they're very different. A lot of people, they get one person. And what I've realized is okay, I need like, a therapist for like, if I have anxiety, or if I need like, I need a dietician for my health, right? I need a specialist for those different areas. So peak performance, you're not going to get there with one person, you need a community and a tribe. And you need people that think like you because I had somebody who believed in me. So if you had somebody in your corner, who was like when you told them, that your dream of owning $50 million of real estate or whatever the number is, and they're like, oh, yeah, of course, you're gonna own that I believe in you, right. And that's why I think if you're single or whatever, make sure that that partner that you're going to be with that they believe in you, right? Because I think a lot of people, you have people who are married, and then they start having those differences in believing What's it possible versus impossible. So anyways, I think the biggest answer of why I've had success is momentum. A lot of people, it's a very underrated concept. And if you're going to do something quickly, you have to have an energy and a force that's behind you. And I've got momentum, right. I mean, if you look at Steph Curry, and his team are the guys who, when and when and when it's just, it's kind of like they get it in their mind. Oh, yeah, this is what we do. So if you can stack those small wins, and they can start as small as I make my bed every morning, and I do what I say I'm going to do I write my goals and intentions. I call this many brokers. And if you can keep the promises that you make to yourself, you're right, it's this concept of, I believe, and I can sit with myself and really believe that in three years, I'm going to be a billionaire. Like that's going to happen, and it's already happened. And so I think from a mindset standpoint, it's like, what am I doing that's causing resistance to me having it or to wanting it, or if I can get those there, then I just need to let time bring it to me. And then you need to strategy people around who have done it, right, there is a concept of pay to play right. And so maybe you whether it's helping a broker just get paid a commission, Zig Ziglar would say, I can do anything I want in life, I help enough other people get what they want. So when we get into deal structure, we can talk about different ways that you can help solve people's problems. If you look at anybody who has any success, they're gonna have a tax problem, or they're gonna they're gonna have money to invest, or you can teach them how to invest or, like when I started early on, everybody knows somebody around him who has equity built up in their home who can pull a line of credit at 4%. So then I can pay them eight to 10%, all of a sudden, they win, I win. And I'm, that's no money down the strategy. So when you start looking for the deals, when you start looking for those opportunities, that they will absolutely come to you and you're in alignment with them. Yeah, something that you said there really stood out to meet Tony Robbins, I know you're big with Tony, Tony Robbins has a quote, he said, problems aren't problems or obstacles that are earned. When in the business context, obviously, you have relationships, you have sickness, stuff that you can't control. That's called life. But when it comes to business, you want to have big problems. They're just there are obstacles that are going to be in the way because whenever you're trying to do really big things, big obstacles are obviously going to occur. So that made me think about that when you said that. Has this always been the way that you remember your yourself being wired? Or are there any specific practices or friction points that you can remember, maybe where some practices were able to help you blow past that? Because I know that one of the most common beliefs is people end up putting a ceiling on themselves. And it's very difficult to blow past like your money framework, to maybe where you're like, Oh, I'm a $10,000 a month guy. Holy shit, I'm making $50,000 a month. Oh, my God, I'm making $100,000 a month and then they find some way to either simmer there or self sabotage before they're able to make a million dollars a month or $10 million a month. Is there any specific tangible practices that you use or resources you can give for whatever that friction occurs about how you can break through that? Yeah, so I think that staying in motion so for me, as I've continued to grow a business I like, how Elrod is in my go potty, right? So get you know, a miracle morning. I'd love my pocket Serna, Mitch Steggy. And we've got Dr. Tom Burns, who wrote the rich doctor and how and I Yeah, it's great. And I think that just those simple things that you start out a lot of guys they're like It's as much what you take out is what you put in. And it's Don't be listening to news, don't be watching TV of CEOs on average are reading five books a month, what are you putting in that you're gonna get out I'm I've got a stack of books that I'm reading right now. And one of them that I cracked open last night is about how to grow businesses from zero to 100 million flat and No, no time at all. And you're sitting, and you're getting in the mind of these people, that this is what they do, right? They listen to podcasts, I still listen to a lot of podcasts, and Dean Graziosi, sometimes listen to bigger pockets, those kinds of things that just feed you. So if you're in an area where you don't have a bunch of great guns and skies or whatever, you've got to find a way to build your community. And you can do that through podcasts or reading those kinds of things. And I think that I also you won't do it long term, if it's just for money, I've got plenty of cash, you know, or at this point to where 87,425,000 people listen, and he just, he just showed us a count. That's what he uses on the roulette table. And yeah, and we have, I have more than other accounts, and I never thought that would be possible. I never thought that my total liquidity is 43 million right now. I think that I started early on, you got a couple things you got to watch, if you're going to get momentum, you got to start small, you start the small things, then you start doing these little deals. And it's this concept of the stack. So just always try to double what you're currently doing. Right. So in your habits, you try to get 1% better. Every time people are really good. There's small changes, right? Like for me, I want to get a speaking coach, and I want to get a little bit better. And I want to get better at my branding and my messaging. That's why I'm hiring immediate team, what are those little things that that can just dial me in a little bit better, and the separator between the people that are, you know, really great, and the people that are just that notch above, it starts to become the large difference. But yeah, those are some of the strategies that I use. And then I think when you have momentum now, every morning at 830, I got 12 people waiting for me to talk about my business, and they're driving my business now. So that and we're continuing to build that out. And one of the one of the thoughts in the business book I was reading is you can only effectively communicate with seven people. So as you're building a company, you have to start to think about that of how am I going to build and lead people. So in the same way, I levered money early on, now I have to leverage people. So if my time was, is worth 150 200 an hour as a CRNA, it's worth well over 30,000 an hour now. And so I think when you start to view yourself that way, it starts to become stupid. And the problem is, it's like you have to be able to put boundaries around that. Okay, maybe eight to five, I'm using that kind of a mindset. But when I'm with my loved ones, I can't sit and think about this cost. This was $120,000 evening to spend three hours, you know what I mean with so I think that one of the things you have to work on is like compartmentalizing, right? You have to be able to pocket some of it and be like, Okay, this is who I am in business. And when I'm with the company, this is how I'm going to be with loved ones, I'm going to create margin, because during margin and those kind of magical moments when I travel, that's what I'm going to get a lot of ideas, or it makes you think through how can I do? How can I do more with less so for me, I made a shift. At first I was like, I don't do deals under a million dollars. That was 5 million. Now I don't do deals under $10 million. And all of a sudden, it can't it compounds. So I'm not going to do a deal where I can't increase my net worth by a million dollars. And I'm not going to do something that's under eight figures. Grant Cardone would say it this way that like the deals that he does, you have like, rich, wealthy, super wealth, and I think he had like ultra wealthy and that's Vanguard trillion dollar fund Blackstone, and in making those jumps, just being able to see it and be cognizant and have self awareness, not only of, Okay, where am I here? And then how do I get into the next bucket and being able to remove yourself and work on the business? I'm hiring a third party search firm who's out hot, you know, we hired a CEO he started we'll get a CEO, CFO, we're getting acquisitions, guys. And I think that when you think about it that way, I'm at a point now where I've got a multi seven figure payroll from my staff, and I never would have thought I would have been able to do that. But now I'm thinking like, I can't imagine not doing that of how much I would lose. So is it scary to you if you if Brian has a $5 million payroll? You know what I mean? Yeah, now, that might be scary right now, but not if your revenues were what? So I think that you, when you put yourself around other people where that's normal, then all of a sudden you heat that up. So yeah, that's a lot. Let's break it down. I'll try to give the 32nd synopsis of what she said. So hire coach, hire specialist, make sure to have every single area covered. If you want to have a personal trainer, hire personal trainer and a dietitian don't have your therapist, your dietician, hire a coach, hire a mentor in the specific vehicle that you choose, and be in rooms that are chatting lunging you it's almost what would be the word it'd be like a comparative, like a challenging competitiveness is like being able to be not going against each other. But being able to be in that room to be like, Hey, he just hit 100 million this year, I want to hit 100 million this year, because I can see it's possible. I can see the goalposts is right there. So a couple more mindset questions for you. Because I really want to dive into this. And I know the value of this and you before we get into the business, so for somebody starting off, is this something that you would recommend to be doing from square one before the cash flow was coming? Maybe it's someone that's got 1020 30,000 in the bank account, maybe 5000, in the bank account, they're starting on this journey, is this advice that you would give for them to go ahead and maybe just grab a credit card and be like, Hey, I'm hiring the best coach, hey, I'm going to make an investment to hire the best mentor, I'm going to make an investment to pay for that mastermind group. Is that advice that you would give before the cash flow? Is there? Or is this something that you would wait and have some formation and ground to have underneath you before you begin this? I'm curious about that. Yeah, so I'm an investor, right. And as an investor, we think about investing in ourselves, I think you start out like Dave Ramsey advice is pretty good for people who don't have money don't go negative. So in my book, I have three stages of financial freedom I talked about one is like early fire where your passive income exceeds your expenses, and then that can be manipulated, right, because a lot of us can live on a little. And then there's like fat fire, where now I replaced whatever income I had, and I'm probably not paying taxes, that's passive income. And then I have legacy fire, which kind of takes that up. So I would say, Yeah, you're not gonna, I wouldn't come in and have the coaches and staff and payroll that I have right now, I had to step up to that. So I think a great way to do that is get a partner, if you can get yourself around other people find a way to provide value to them. And my first deal was 20%, owner, and I didn't put any money down. So most people can do that. And the books are free books are 2030 bucks. So rather than go and sign up for guru type stuff, if there's not a way that I can do a trade, or maybe you work for them, some or volunteer, maybe go to the event and volunteer at and say, Hey, can I get it, I got it, whatever. Like, I'm not a big glutton use a credit card. But thing, that's not how I am. But I don't think that you have to shortcut yourself of of where you start. So if you're going to start alone, I would start small to mitigate risk. But that's why a lot of people start in homes, you can put three to 5%. Down, there's almost zero liability, right? So I don't I think if you want to start house hacking is a great way to start, get your feet wet. Those kind of things. If you want to start bigger, you probably need to start with a partner. Or you need to, you know, really just make sure that you know what you're doing or have somebody that you really trust, if you're gonna go out and raise money and put somebody else's money at risk. But that's early on. That's the kind of stuff that we do. So I think if you can get the right team around you that there's no reason to level and I've level jumped a lot of level jump by maybe it's just because I've always been an old soul. But I hang out with guys that are a lot of times in their 50s to 70s. And maybe that was because I just I've always I've always been a hard worker. So I think that that's one way to, to get past that. And then I think that it's realizing that some of that stuff is for a season, maybe you're gonna have a coach for a year, and you learn what they are. And it says, you know, it's when this student is ready, the teacher appears. But I think that there's this concept of the bridge, most people are just most entrepreneurs are add and where they fall apart is they're out trying to flip a house while they're trying to raise for an apartment building, or they're trying to read on Triple Net, and they're trying to intern to do self storage, and they're just all over the place. So if you can pick that one thing, and stick with it, I think that's really how you get enough reps in to be good. And I think that's where you can come to the point of mastery. So I think that in finding financial freedom for me, and I'm selling, it's telling us to myself even still of if I want to become a billionaire, yeah, I can be out and doing everything, right, because I have the access to do that. But if I stick with my one thing, that's more likely gonna get me there. riches are in the niches. And it's this concept of scarcity. And what I like about real estate that's different than the stock market is the buildings we buy, there's only one of them, there's only one in that location. Whereas if I go on invest in stocks, like anybody has access to that was the same thing. When I got into medicine, most people can't make it through all the schooling so that you're paid more on the other side. So I think finding areas where there's a higher bar to entry, it may seem tough, and you don't want to do it. But boy, when you break through, it's way more lucrative than dogpiling everybody else on you know, it's a contrarian investing, right? So that's why right now I feel like I'm in a in an area where most people run to housing and self storage and mobile home parks and I'm going to triple net, therefore I get higher yields therefore I get higher growth. And I'm rewarded for that. Now you have to be you have to be do your due diligence, you have to really understand the asset types. Manny Kaufman who I love, you probably know him. He's the guy who has a bunch of cars Isn't that kind of stuff, he's bought like the same office building three times in a row. And it's just amazing where he'll like. It's he really understands what he's doing. And so I think that's what I would say is, rather than have a new story that you're telling people have an old story that you tell to new people. And it's the concept of be boring, almost. It's like, as if you can get down and do that thing. If I look at Joe Fairless, I'm going to go on Joe Fairless. Podcasts are the best ever conference or whatever best ever commercial real estate podcasts. He's done a podcast every single day. And now he went from zero. I know his performance coaches, Trevor McGregor, he now has 1.4 billion assets under management. And the guy's probably got at least a five to $700 million net worth, okay, at this point. And he's probably mid to late 30s. And he did it because he was consistent and he had momentum. And he, he picked his bridge, and you just chop, chop, and it's compound pounding over time, the water hitting the rocks, and you just kind of eventually it gets through. And I think the more that you can get accountability and get people around you, that you just keep showing up every day. And that's why they've got what David Osborne does is amazing, because he's the ultra habit tracker guy. And those habits dictate who you become. Love it. Okay, yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, and I had David on this show as well. So it's cool to hear the similarities and like the things that are always sticking out between all of these. And then like, for people listening, I'm going to have detailed show notes and show descriptions of all of this that he's going over, and any resources that we're talking about. So now Matt, I want to take you on a really fun little trick here, man. So we've gone through some mindset stuff, I want to go into the wonderful world of triple net lease investing commercial properties, this is where I want to go next, I'm done playing small, I'm going to get one more house hack just because I've got to do it while I've got my w two. And then I'm going to get out of that. I'm jumping into freakin triple net, you got a smile on your face. So let's go ahead and start with why triple net and talk about how much that you love paying taxes. I met lease for people don't understand it means the tenant pays their own taxes, insurance, property management, maintenance or repairs, those are passed through to the tenant. So we have this very stable stream of income that is credit worthy. And those it's usually been institutions, funds, REITs and old white haired guys that have owned these properties. And it's the what you graduate to at the end, right? It's the doctorate, if you will of real estate, and the bar has been fairly high, you gotta have a lot of money to get into them. They're not usually the good deals aren't marketed, but they're just people, it's pocket listings, people trade on those kinds of things. So it's a hard barrier to entry. But on the other side, it's extremely, it doesn't take your time. And also it's very passive, they're scalable, and you've got the best renters that are renting from you in that category. Right. So it's the ultimate, if you will, for mindset shifts I talked about in the book are active to passive income. We talked about cash flow to net worth, we talked about six figures to seven and beyond. And then we talk about debt negative to debt positive what those mean, what I preach is the Cashflow Quadrant a job move from the E quadrant to the AI quadrant right have become an investor in the investor can pay zero tax if they're smart. So that may be somewhat state specific, but you can really lower your tax liability and that's your biggest expense. And then the second is cash flow to net worth and I did that it's edgy, right? A lot of people aren't gonna like that. But once you have enough cash flow, to replace your expenses, net worth is really what it's about. Because if you can increase your net worth, you can the cash flow will follow and having telling people to fill out a personal financial statement, it was something that I did early on, and I still do every quarter sometimes sooner if I got to get a loan or those kinds of things, but it helped me really understand getting to that kind of, you know, fat fire and then legacy wealth of, okay, if I'm from a portfolio standpoint, if I'm my net worth is 150 million, what's my passive income and it's multi seven figures. Now, that would be very difficult to achieve. If you were taking traditional means of investing of I'm gonna get 500 bucks a door on a house. And it depends on what your goals are. Right? If your goal is don't make 50,000 a year maybe you do want 10 homes, the cash flow 500 bucks a door, whatever that may be used the 10 owner occupant loans or whatever but anyway, so thanks for filling that out. And then just thinking bigger, right, that 767 figures and beyond, like, just add a zero. What does that feel like? You know what I mean? It's no, it's the same effort, right? It's the same so I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna show up and eventually you get far enough up kind of that climbing wall if you will, that Okay, now we don't have harnesses anyway, you know what I mean? It's let's go big. And so I think that a lot of times you have this perceived sense, just fear and fear one of my coaches would say that's false evidence appearing real. So it's like this concept of the elephant that's on a leash around the tree. And then you take the leash off, and he just sits and walks around the tree. And it's just okay, this is what's known, it's what's comfortable. And even if I'm living in a world that I don't want to live in, and I'm gonna stay there just because that's comfortable to me. So I want to be the voice of just come on out, come on out, it's gonna be okay, you know. And then that last point is just debt is an asset. And this is a contrarian approach. But the more income producing debt I can get on my books, the wealthier I'm going to become. And Andrew Carnegie said, it's paying a million bucks off and real estate's easiest way to become a millionaire because your your tenants are paying it off. That theory would hold true with 510 100 million. So I'm at a point of if I can get debt at sub 4%. And CPI or inflation is at 7%. Give me as much as I possibly can get it. So I'm going to undercut inflation. And cash is trash when it's just a roading. So that being said, I think they're one of the reasons I've been able to grow as I've had access to liquidity. And people don't think I've had both the real estate side and the banking side, I understand how to get lines of credit, I understand how to get second mortgages, I understand how to raise money, I understand how to do bridge financing, I understand how to close a property and pull all my money out immediately. And so I think when you see debt as a currency in and of itself, that you aren't scared of it anymore. And I'm a manager of the debt and it's emotional. Anytime you buy something, you're making an emotional decision. Sure, right. So if you can try to take a step back and disconnect from the how much is my mortgage payment a month and m and this like panic and fear your weight? Well, my my tenants are paying it, good leases, my rents are under market, I'm bought under replacement value. I've got good traffic counts ago, good foot traffic counts, I got good store sales, my rent goes up. And you when you start to get that down when others are fearful be greedy, right? And it's that concept of continuing to invest. So those are some of the mindset shifts in the book that I think are really helpful for people. I love it. And then a quick question, are you good for about 10 past the hour, so we can really dive into the numbers. Okay, just making sure. Okay, so now I'm cracking my knuckles. Let's go. Alright, so we're going, I want to go cold hard into the freakin numbers, I want to go through the deal process, I want to go with breaking this down into sections for someone that is in residential, maybe someone has some old tea, maybe they've got like 20 units of multifamily, maybe they've got 1020 single family homes, they're like, Hey, I'm ready to level jump. I want what Matt's doing, I want to go this triple net lease route, I want to break down like a buyers journey and what these numbers look like and what these processes look like cold, hard cash. So we can be able to really drive that point home. So somebody can have a roadmap. So first, I want to start with the sourcing process, like lead generation, because you have deals coming to you because of how your momentum when you talk about momentum, you only get that through lead generation and deal flow. So can you talk a lot about your specific measures on doing lead gen and deal flow, and then how you started doing it when you are a one man shop, and then how that process has evolved any specific advice, tips or tricks that you could give? Yeah, so brokers are the gateway keepers, I would start that's where I started. That's how I got my first deals. And the benefit is they're kind of those rock stars, no rock stars, right. And if you can get the broker they can serve, or they can flip their hats a lot more a lot of different hats. And so the broker can keep the peace between you and the seller, if you don't know how to negotiate, you don't want to be like direct mailing and trying to get some angry, crazy seller, you know, probably just end up losing money and attorney fees or whatever. So getting a broker who knows the market real estate is very region dependent, right. So you have to dial in a Buy Box and you for that person who's starting out, you may want to go with something that's a million bucks. And really, then you got to come up with 200 grand, right? So either you have to buy the building at a million where it can appraise at 1.2 to make up for that downstroke. Or you got to bring in a part in that as the 200 Grand or you got to raise the 200 Grand, interesting strategy, we can get into his special allocation with bonus depreciation. And this is something I've really loved. So, strategy, if I was to go back, I was like, Yeah, you got you got this twinkle in your eye, Matt. I love good more. So most people don't know this, okay, but if I was to go back, what I would say is I would go to somebody who has a tax problem, or they're literally going to write a sick, they're gonna write a $200,000, check to the IRS. What I would say to them is I would say, Look, you give me your money, the owner usually wins, right? Equity is where you want to be in the equity side of the table. We don't really care about cash flow long term, right? So what you're going to do is you're going to say I'll give you 1% of the property, but I'll give you a special allocation of the bonus depreciation of 100%. So get a property where you can give them enough depreciation and knock out their tax liability and then say, and then I'll just give you a eight to 10% cash on cash, meaning you retain 90% 99% ownership of the property, you gave them the cash on the depreciation, and you don't really care at that point, you got 99% of the building for free. So nobody understands really how to do this. But it's brilliant. Because if you sell the property, they will have to recapture the bonus depreciation on their side, or you 1031 exchange with them, defer it so that your cost basis stays down, you buy the next property, you take another round of bonus depreciation. And ultimately, you're deferring taxes, right? So this is a strategy that you have to think about the tax consequences long term. But one of the things that we don't have in stocks or other asset types is we get leverage, right? And we get depreciation. And so I think that this is a strategy that people do not understand is if you go to somebody, and again, this is problem solving. Let's say you're a doctor who makes 500 grand a year, your wife stays home, and she's the kids are out of the house. They're empty nesters. And she can spend two hours a day actively involved in real estate. All of a sudden, you can take passive losses in real estate, make them active losses, which offset active income. So now I've been able to take and I'll have the doctor not have to pay tax anymore, the money that he would have had to pay in tax gives to you to invest, right, so you solved his problem with the taxes, you got your problem solved with not having the cash, and everybody wins the end of the day. And then you hold the property it appreciates. You pay him off, maybe you give him an extra point or to have at the end to say thank you. And now you have your own money to go do your deals with and your problem is solved for us to dive any resources that are available yet to dive deep. And I don't know, I think I just picked that one up on my own. But I mean, what in the book? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I've got the book. Yeah, the books coming out the Insiders Guide to triple that investing. Bonus. That's right. That's right. I actually Ken McElroy, and likely Robert Kiyosaki are going to do the foreword, which I'm really excited about to have them to be able to do that together. But anyway, yeah, I think that there are a million ways. And when you start to be a real estate, not as a fixed in, like the mindset of real estate, you're like, Okay, let's just come at this, and how do we solve everybody's problem with the deal, all of a sudden, you can start to get really creative of, you know, early on, you just the more equity you can get, the quicker you're going to get to wherever you want to go. And especially if you can bring that person in, maybe you buy under market value, and you may be able to get it in a month's turn. And if it's apartments for me at a 14 unit apartment building, right. So I increase the rents, were going laundry in the basement, I started charging for parking in four months, it doubled the guy's money, and I got 61,000 after tax. So imagine if you had 99% of that deal. And you'd only given him the depreciation and four months of 10% interest only instead of walking away with 61,000, I would have walked away with 250 or 300,000. Imagine that kind of that's life changing money. And then imagine now I double it. So the next time it's 600. Next time, it's 1.2, then it's two point, whatever. So it's and then you get to a point, how do I get once I have momentum? How do I keep it and when you think when you think in terms of energy, it's systems and processes, right? So like, we have And that's our board that we run deals on. And I have operations I have a Chief Chief Operations Officer, I have an operations manager, got a transaction coordinator are gonna invest relationship so you can get all those things, but we're so liquid in today's market, people have zero excuses why they can't get money. And I like for probably the three things that I would think about if I was young as I would go to friends and family, see if they have equity in their homes, they can pull lines at 4%. And all you got to do is get a promissory note and just say I'll sign a promissory note. And when you can six to 10% interest only you're paying them, they're making money that they wouldn't have otherwise made. Obviously, they have to think you're competent to lend you the money, but maybe you start with a small amount. You also we're gonna be starting with a partner to your point, if you're starting out, don't do it solo, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna I'm gonna be eaten what liquid My goal is to have maybe 100,000 myself and then have different pooled funds, and then get with a competent partner helmet. Maybe I give you a ring, who knows? That's what you do. Okay? So you're competent because you have a partner because people that listen to this show are intelligent, and we're going to do things the right way. So you have a partner, you go start pulling home equity lines of credit, friends and family continue. Yeah, and then self directed IRA or solo 401k. There's a ton of people that have money sitting in those accounts. And you can get really creative there's opportunity zones, right? If they put their money if you can get people to cash out, take capital gains, put it into an opportunity zone and follow the rules over time. They can usually like a 10 year period, you know, talk to your accountant, but even if you don't do that, you can use most people if they say See you as young, entrepreneurial, and you've done your homework and you seem trustworthy, they're gonna be willing to do that for you so and you're gonna be able to get them or during that we'll be able to beat the market. So I think that's a way and then I think that joining masterminds and go abundance, people would probably, if you paid them a point or two on the front end with 10 12% interest, I bet you could raise money. Absolutely. So I think that may be where I would spend money. If I hit that first level, maybe I would join a mastermind or whatever. There's local Ria, meetings, meetups, those kinds of things. And I think it when you have a hunger and a thirst for that, I think it'll, it'll absolutely show up. So a lot of different ways that you can get started. My book is not just about triple net, like the mindset principles can be applied to any kind of real estate. So instead of buying one home, could you buy 10? Could you buy out a portfolio? Could you give somebody that appreciation instead of your next house after you have 10 homes? Did you buy an apartment building? Could what could you it just thinking bigger, sooner? Right? So it doesn't, I think that mindset doesn't attach to a strategy. And that's the beauty of it. As somebody who's a serial entrepreneur, once you get good at it, then you understand the principles of running businesses and then it's okay my business did a million EBIT a 5 million EBIT a 50 million and EBIT out, and then what is that valued? Add on a multiple all of a sudden getting to where you want to go? Isn't that challenging? Yeah, so you're not even necessarily a triple net investor, you're just a problem solver that uses triple net as the vehicle. Okay, I love that. And then obviously, so two questions here. So what is your you basically alluded to broker relations? Are the get one all give all of finding commercial deals? Is there anything particular that you are doing in investing? And for times sake, I'll just ask you for resources for the rest of the trip when investing, obviously, with your book included? But I really want to stick to this broker relations part. Is there anything that you did specifically, to really find this thing back to think back to a mat that had the 14 unit, or the your multifamily and you're first getting into commercial? What did you do to vet that broker and then do anything differently, to be able to have these deals come to you first, because there's something different there because you make it seem very easy, and it is, but there's, there's in the context of the universe, but 99% of the people are getting hung up here. So let's talk about the broker relations and what specifically that you did to really ratchet that in. So the mls of commercial is Craxi, costar and loop net, right? So I would get on all three of those platforms, and you see who's active in the market, right, you can start to see comps and you can start to see what trades and then that's a way you can just reach out to the brokers got a property listed who wants to sell this property, you're like, hey, you know what the you it's a conversation, it's a relationship. But I think that calls, these guys are old and old, any good broker is gonna probably be a relationship kind of guy. So texting and email just to get a hold of them, but you want to get them on the phone. And you want to tell them a story, right? And you want to build a really mastering the art of storytelling. And so maybe you leverage someone else's story. Early on, maybe you go get a mentor or a partner, I actually I have a partner and he does x, y, or z or has this kind of a balance sheet, or here's his proof of funds, and they take you seriously. So now I have my own story. So I get on. Yeah, I did 500 million in real estate last year. And here's some of my properties I've done. And it's very easy for me to establish credibility or and rapport early on. So if you don't have that you may need to borrow the credibility from borrowers. Yeah, borrow a story get good at telling yarns. And that's these commercial guys. They love hearing stories. And oh, how did you do that? Their deal, guys, they want to hear find a, do a deal with somebody else, get a piece of a deal, and then sit there and tell them about your deal? Yeah, this is one of the things we've done or whatever, maybe you invest in an LP or even just to be like, Oh, I own real estate. And you can say that I own real estate, and here's my partner, whatever. And then you get your story down. And you're able to it's a language, that elevator pitch. Yeah, though, it's you got to be able to establish credibility quickly. And yeah, don't be long winded. And it's a language. So if I come on, and they're like, What are you looking for? And you're like, I don't know, can you tell me what I'm looking for? So it's like, what, what size of a deal? What class? What kind of property? What class of property? What cap rate, what locations, those kinds of things and then and have thought about lenders too. So think about okay, maybe you have a couple banks in mind local banks or credit unions, or if you're using a private lender, whatever. But I think that early on, that's how I was able to establish that as I started talking to them, I realized that they all know each other. So once I get one guy, then he'll intro me to somebody else or we'll go make an offer with somebody and but the biggest thing is don't sign an exclusive agreement with anyone. It's different than residential. So what you want to do is You want to say, I'm exclusive to the deal, right? I'll sign something for this deal. Only just so that I'm good. But usually the best brokers aren't gonna make you sign anything. So if somebody tries to make you sign something, I would say that's a bad sign, that they're probably not a good broker. Because the good brokers don't even have time to mess around with those agreements. So I think that's something that I would do. And then long term for the best deals, a broker has paid a commission off of where the deal sells. So unless you have a relationship with that broker, sometimes I'm like, hey, I'll pay you outside of closing, if you can get this price down, right? Like all you have to align interest. So if a broker is getting paid by the seller, he wants the price to be as high as possible. Yeah, he's getting paid a percentage. So ultimately, if you can get a broker in your corner, so I've gotten him how I do that is by volume. So I'll call the sellers broker, I'll establish rapport and get him as the Trojan horse on the inside on my team, and the seller doesn't know if that's where, and he'll like helped me force an appraisal Hi, and help us I think that's the biggest thing of sit down with the broker and be like, Look, you helped me get this property closed. This is what I did last year, I need 10 more deals like this from you. So you helped me get this one deal, then you can go rep me and you'll make the money 10 times over. So I think that you have to get again, what's the problem we're solving, the broker wants to get paid based on a commission, right? So that's a strategy that you can use of it's selling yourself. As much as you're selling a deal. You're always selling no matter what we're doing right now. I'm selling my book to you. And you don't even know that I know. There you go, you got listeners to this show. Know It? And they'll buy it, you know? But yeah, so I think that's the biggest thing is to be able to tell a story, sell yourself, have confidence with humility, that's what's going to work with brokers, stick with brokers, right? If you can throw them a bone if you can, if you find a deal, and there's a way that they can come in and get a little piece of it, and they feel like you're watching out for them, I think that's really good. And then you start to source your own deals, and everybody knows, like 400 other people. So the power and leverage of relationships have I talked to that broker, he knows all these other guys, property managers, leasing, brokers, all these people off market, they'll, they'll be able to turn deals over for you. Okay, awesome. And then so on the back half of this, I want to go into you outside of the business, because we don't hear enough about you actually, on these podcasts. So we'll finish with that. But before we get to that, actually formally, plug your book said the name, so you're going to learn from it, and then maybe list a couple of additional resources that you would recommend mentors, YouTube channels, groups, or books for people that you found most authentic and accurate with their information about triple net lease and commercial investing? Yeah, there's not a lot of resources out there, which is why I wrote the book. But the book is The Insider's Guide to triple net investing. And people can go to Matt that on a free o fri, And there's a pre order page, you can put your email in wildness, his business, you can go there, you can put your information to connect with us. So we see a lot of property. So I'm a buy and hold guy. And then in addition to that, we can help people get into properties and help them and a lot of people aren't at a level that they can work with me. But this book, I just I'm turning so many people away that I was like, hey, I want to write this book to make sure that everybody whether they're in triple net or not that it can affect help them. As far as resources go, I'm a big podcast guy. So I'm a big fan of Ed, my lead who's my coach, obviously, like Dean Graziosi, my like the best ever real estate, podcast, those kinds of things. And then five think that masterminds are really good commercial Academy, I think is a great way for people. Those are people we're actually doing deals. So I think the CRE circle with AJ and Britt, I think is a good one. They are more self storage stuff. But they will get into industrial and some of those kinds of properties. So just getting around some of that energy and content is really good. But yeah, I think this book will really change the game for a lot of people. Okay, awesome. And I appreciate all of that. So besides that you were talking about your vivid vision before we began this, I'd like to go into that now. What's your vision for the future here, Matt? Yeah, I started the division book. Everybody should read. Came Harold. I say every episode. David is right. That's right. And mine was to buy $50 million of real estate and I Yeah, and I did as a three year vision. I did it in 12 months. And then it's like, whoa, okay, I achieved that. What's next? And I think the biggest thing for people to enjoy the journey because there's no endpoint and it's an achieving those goals that you actually it's really fulfilling and I find the line a lot of meeting. So my goal is in three years to be a billionaire. And I believe that I'll be able to do that but I want to have I don't want to live in Eau Claire Wisconsin during the winter anymore. I want to at least be snowboarding and be on a beach or I was recently in Scottsdale, I like Scottsdale or Austin, Texas. are, you know, Florida somewhere there, I'd love to be in Hawaii. But the time difference is hard when you're running a business, so maybe I'll be fully out of the business by then. And I'll just go out there. But anyway, so that just want to I want to influence people that has nothing to do with real estate, we're working up a branding and messaging strategy, you want to keep writing books. So I'd like to sell 5 million books, I'd like to have 3 million Instagram followers, I'd like to have a private plane, I've got a lot of those kind of material things. But I think it's also just living a really fulfilled life. And I think that you do that through growth and contribution, what are ways that we're working on coming up with a nonprofit that we're going to give to that we can plug in and give or something that we could sell and just give all the proceeds to charity, those kinds of things. So I think that that coupled with helping my family and those close to me find financial freedom, it's given me a lot of joy. And that's really where I'm headed. I do you find yourself you think you're gonna find yourself going into the coaching sphere yourself? In the future? Probably not. I'm not like, Yeah, I think I like really, it's about reach for me. So it's not I don't think my highest I think my highest and best use is maybe doing some podcasts, writing and books, that kind of thing. But I coached by having people do deals with me in that regard. I like a live deal where really matters. And we're not talking in theory land, we're working on real problems that are coming up in real time. That's been a lot more fun for me. So I guess I I coach every day in that regard. But yeah, who knows, maybe I would coach at some point, I think you get to a point where you want to put the hand down and I think it would probably be on a really selective basis that I would do it if I did do it at all. Okay, awesome. So we both worked with Jason Drees. So I want to cast something out to where you and I are both young. I'm 27 I just turned 27 year 30 So we both have a huge time horizon and let's call it what it is with the circles that you and I are both running it in unless we get hit by a car tomorrow which is also possible we've got like the David Sinclair's we got like the focus on health and well, well being and longevity. I won't be surprised if we all make it to 150 at this point with technology, cassis gas division out to Matt, on a for you at 4550 years old, 1520 years in the future, what kind of impact so you're talking about being a billionaire in the next couple of years? And I believe it? What kind of impact is this going to create? What kind of freakin ripple effect is this going to create in the world for good? I'm just really curious to hear your perspective because your trajectory right now is gonna be life changing money. And I'm here to create a massive meteoric ripple effect. So I'm curious about your kind of like ripple effect plan or if you flop thought that far into the in the future? Yeah, definitely still something I'm thinking about. I think that for me, my faith is really important, right? So I want to be able to help others in a way that because you can physically help people, right? You can help them with housing and food, those kinds of things. I've struggled with anxiety in the past. And it's like, how can I help people find freedom and ways of somebody may have a lot of money, but they may be stressed out all the time stuck in their job or this or that. So I think that helping people find financial freedom and financial literacy and helping people learn that language, I think is a huge thing of why I want to sell 5 million books and why I want to do those kinds of things. I was recently in a pod call with Hal Elrod and he sold 3 million bucks in Miracle Morning, he goes there's 7 billion people that still haven't read it. And that's he's connected to that purpose of those people living those filled lives. And he's had that experience of cancer right near death experience. And I think that creates a sense of urgency. You look at an AJ Osborn almost died with gamma ray. And now he's got that sense of urgency. And so I think that while we all may think we lived 150 If I think if you live every year is Is this my last year right? Like, I can live in the future. I can live in that. But I think what God's called me to right now I've had to I think that the why can't it be us? Why can't it be you? Why can't we be the ones who I believe that good people should be wealthy and I believe that imagine like Grant Cardone whatever he's I'm not sure that I wouldn't want to be friends personally with him. He his goal is like on 40 billion in real estate and then become president, the United States transfer influence. So it's a really interesting if you listen to a weird one. Yeah. But right, that's a little bit different. Tony Robbins says people have six six needs six human needs. certainty, uncertainty. Believe it's like loving connection, growth. Yeah, significance, growth and contribution. I'm a significance guy. So I and this is really good for the listener to think through what are some of your needs, right? Whether it's just for you, whether you're trying to be with the loved one, and for me, and I'm like, I'm a significance guy, but really underneath I'm soft, and I want loving connection. And so I think Will I ever hit some number that no, I'm going to I always have the drive. And it's because I have a need of an Enneagram. I'm a three, I'm going achievement driven kind of person. If you look at like Brock Obama, he always wanted his dad to tell him, he was enough when he had to become like the president of the free world to be able to do to be able to fill that, that what he had inside of him. So then helping people create that self awareness, and you know, how to be the best version of them? Yeah, I just think that it'll be growth and contribution, trying to find ways who knows if it'll be real estate? I don't know if it'll be real estate, maybe I'll be doing something completely different at the end of three years. Yeah, I love it. And when you're operating at the level that you are like three years is 30 years to know, actually. Now without the one that was basically 300 years at this point, you're making like $60,000 a day growing. But it's interesting that you say that I was sitting front row, DJ Savoy is Platt, your Platinum Partner, but I don't know. No, I want to though. Yeah. So DJ is a plat. So he gave me some really good seats. So me and my girlfriend were sitting up front. And Tony was doing his whole love and growth and significance. And he was like, alright, write down what your thing is. And I was like, um, significance and growth. So like, when you're speaking with me, because I'm the exact same. I'm a three on the Enneagram significance and growth driven. And I was like, proud of that. And then Tony was like, he was like, Alright, cool. Now which ones? Which ones are you raise your hand, if you're this? Raise your hand if you're that. And I was like, oh, significant, Tony. And he was like, Alright, now which one do you think is the most doomed for failure? And I was like, oh, probably the connection one sees like significance. And I was like, Ah, so I found it interesting. The reason I say that, because you were talking about significance. And that's awesome. But then you also mentioned, growth, love connection. And he said, That's the bedrock that you need to be able to have really, truly lasting impact. Because it's like you said, like cardones, very significant striven? We don't know him personally. But I feel like he almost associated significance with status. So it's like, I don't know. But yeah, I feel like you've got a massive meteoric ripple effect that you're gonna, you're doing now. But now, with this media team, I agree with you that the media, like what you're doing is too quiet. This media team is going to turn up the volume, and I can't wait to have people start listening to it. I'm grateful to be a part of that medium for you, man. Because it's awesome. Thanks. I think that if we can help people find what their needs are, and help them realize they can fulfill those and maybe for people like you and I, and it's like, Hey, you're accepted. You're enough? Yeah. Even you if we can learn how to speak those love languages to people. I think that's what you know, those Tony does for people I think it does for people. I think that's what I want to do for people as well as be that that voice calling people out like, Hey, you don't have to feel like you don't have to feel guilt or shame or less from the enemy. That's not your this. There's this kind of, I'm just I'm very excited for people to live in the kind of abundant positive life that go abundance is all about. And I think that it's yeah, I'm just I think we're thinking the right way, right? It's not about dollars and cents, it's about fulfillment and significance of meaning. And that's really what's gonna, at the end of the day, I think what, where people are gonna live a truly happier life. Yeah, and then that's like, that's what drives it. Like the guy that's got something that to work for underneath is the guy that's gonna take it to the frickin mountaintop, like campaigns is a huge bow hunter, and then he works out all the time. And he posts he's a world famous bow hunter and he posts in the gym all the time. But he's, he's like, I'm gonna be fitter than anyone because I'm doing this. So I could be out in the mountains bow hunting, is I'm gonna outwork someone 10 times out of 10. Because I've got a why behind, it's usually the middle class that stay where they are right at the underdogs, they have got a reason they've got a drive, they don't have anything to lose. And it's the middle class that really struggled to get out of there. So I think that's where it's really interesting to see, I think with your background, you probably grew up middle class, and kudos to you for getting after because a lot of people can just like, live like my parents, I'm just gonna keep coasting. And so it's actually fairly difficult. And I think for the listeners, if I just want to say that we believe in you and still believe those people have, hey, you can be and do whatever you want to. So yeah, super pumped. Yeah. And that's why your story is so inspiring, because you're a case study, because even when I started my coaching with Jason, I'm like, what is it because I struggled with them, like, hey, I want this goal. But I see Matt doing it because I'm in the same circle as Matt. I'm like Matt's doing this. And if you don't want to compare yourself to a negative connotation, you want to compare yourself and like a good connotation. It's the gap in the game. right you got going again Ben Hardy. Yeah, you can look at that delta oh this and while I had my legs above me are Richard Branson's 4 billion and Sam Zell is the best real estate investor ever 6 billion and I didn't sell it when he sold an OT, if you look him up, he sold an office REIT for 39 billion to Blackstone. So if you want to be humbled, that's the guy right one of his quotes that I love, and we can wrap up here, but he said, If you whenever I'm thinking about, well, I sell a property. Sam Zell had this quote that just as seared in my mind, and he said, if you if you wouldn't, it's as if you bought it for that number if you wouldn't accept that offer. So it's this concept of when you're thinking about selling a lot of people will just buy and hold but let's say you buy a property and you hold for six to 12 months and you get an offer. A lot of people are like, Oh, I wouldn't want to sell it. If you wouldn't buy it that number then you should sell so it takes emotion out of it. And I think that's one of that's one of the tips that's really helped me and I honestly have some properties I've gotten offers on that I've been holding than I probably should sell and so as when you think of it as an investor then you're not as emotionally connected to things and it allows flow follow Sam Zell if you want to be in tripping on stuff he's the man I thought you were gonna go the opposite direction there I thought you were gonna say he regretted selling it was like a buy and hold guy now i He's had a very he's very opportunistic in nature but yeah, he basically because it's it shifts it right you're like boy I should hold and over this period of time but there's this like time value of money thing where you know, if you can it's hard to go broke making a profit. Yeah, definitely think he's great. But anyways, that it's been great being on with you. Thank you so much for having me. And I have to do it again. Yeah, absolutely. We'll do another one before the billion and then we'll do a billy episode. People can follow through it. But yes, my friend and Matt already plugged his book. When is it coming out September so be on the lookout for that. Hopefully, I'll be having my first commercial property already knocked out by then I can read and see what I did wrong. And then yeah, and then wild Miss ventures? Is your company correct? And the people can reach out that website? Yep. And matt.on a frio on Instagram as well. If you just want to reach out we'll be doing everything on gram. That'd be ramping up that content guys. Get that max out team on them. Matt brother, I appreciate you thank you for all that you're doing thank you for inspiring thank you for being you and so chills a cucumber while you're doing it. This was a great episode and excited to keep watching you see what you're doing and just riding that wave with your brother. Likewise, Brian will see up top. Yes, sir. Say bye. You've been listening to the action Academy podcast helping you to choose what you want with who you want. When you want to be given the gift of freedom. Don't turn your back on that. We hope you've enjoyed the show. And we hope you've gotten some practical and useful information make sure to like rate and review the show. We'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hook up with us on social media. Remember financial independence is freedom. The flag the freedom fly