Pat HK, how are you? My friend? What's up Brian. What's up, buddy. I am excited to talk to you today about the new book and about your story with quitting in general. And we're gonna have this interview in two different sections, two different Hals. We're gonna have the pat half and we're gonna have the Tim half. And I love that actually, how this all turned out because you are both opposite ends of the personality spectrum. So it's interesting to give your perspectives. So talk to us about quit. why is being a quitter. Cool. Now,

That's funny, Brian. Why is it cool now? I, I it's cool now because I guess there's so much freedom and opportunity that didn't exist before. 30 years ago 50 years ago, you go back in time. Everything was pigeonholed more like you were a nurse or a teacher or a dentist, or, it was pigeonholed. It was very rare to be like, oh, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a real estate. Landlord. People just didn't do that for the most part. You know what I mean? There just, wasn't a thing. And I think now more than ever in history, You the world is just full of opportunities and choices. And so if you quit something and fail, it is very easy and socially acceptable just to try something new. I think what happened was in the past, people got married when they were 19. They had kids by the time they're 20, they had a house by the time they're 23, a dog, a backyard, a fence yard, two cars the wife didn't work. The man worked, so for him to quit his job and just. Do something on a whim or do some idea that he had was just basically it just wasn't respected at all. It would be like, yeah, it'd be like, you're not being a man. You're not providing for your family. It would be looked down upon by everyone. And so now I think there's a much more. It's more socially acceptable to live with your parents until you're older, it's more socially acceptable to not get married until you're older. And it's certainly more socially acceptable to quit and try something new than ever before in history. So that, that answers that question So a couple of things we do in the book we have part of the reason we wrote the book, an analogy we use in the book is it's very scary to quit. And first of all, people have to come to that. Realization and agree to that, that it's scary and that's why they haven't quit. It's like walking up to the end of a cliff, looking down the entrepreneur, is more likely to, there's a, there's an old adage. The entrepreneur will jump off a cliff and build a plane on the way down. That's 1% of the population. The 99% will look down and say, hell. Let's get a selfie and roll out, so the reality is it's very scary. And so we wrote this book so that we wanted every chapter and every part of this book to be like a trape where you grab on to the trape pole in chapter one, then you swing. And you grab onto the trape pole in chapter two, and then eventually you end up at the other side of the divide the Gorge or whatever it is the, but in addition to that, we have something called a safety net, which is what a trape artist in a circle has. They have a safety net. So if they drop the trapeze and that there's a safety net, I think what you're saying is, should you build a safety net? And the answer to that is yes. And we go through it in the chapter. I think there's. Multiple ways to build a safety. Net's not all necessarily real estate. That might be your way. For some people might just be saving money. For other people might be getting a loan from a bank. Whatever the case may be, you want to build a safety net. Somehow. Now the know of that question is by doing a full-time job and. Doing something on the side, that's equivalent to only taking a half of a poison pill every day and expecting to feel better. Instead of a full poison pill. You're still not happy. You're probably working way more hours because you have two jobs now instead of one. So we don't necessarily recommend that. We rec you know, to a degree, I guess it's okay. We'd rather have you do it just for a little while and then just jump off the cliff with so long as you have that safety net. And if the safety net means buying a couple of houses, so be it. Then that's the safety net. Yeah. So

I love how you guys structured the book. You laid it out. What's some general rules of thumb that you can give about developing your safety net about figuring out how much you need for that safety net. Because 99% of making this jump and this plunge is all mental and just going and overcoming fear.

Yeah, and that's gonna all depend on what business you choose or what job you choose. For some of the people, this book is for, they're gonna quit one job to do another job that they love. So their safety net doesn't need to be huge. For other people they're gonna quit and open up a company which some of our case studies that's exactly what they did. Three or four of our case studies in the book. They went and opened up companies. Now when that happens, your safety net probably should be six months worth of expenses. Some things you could get into and immediately start making income from day one other things. It could take you a while to make some income. So you gotta figure out what it is you're gonna do and how long it's gonna take you to make income based on a business plan you come up with, or a plan that you come up.

What are some major red flags that you see are obstacles that people can avoid. When they're looking to make this jump, that could potentially be a danger to them as they're leaping.

Not thinking through everything. And one of the ways we recommend that people think through the process and get ready for the process is developing a quitting team And the quitting team has to have four elements. The first element is what we call stakeholders. And stakeholders are, eh, let's just say loved ones. This would be your wife, your husband your mom, your dad, whatever it is people that love you care about you, that you live with every day that you see every day or regularly. They need to be down with you. It's important for them to be like, I believe in you. I think you should do this. I, if they're against you, it's gonna be a lot harder. And once you've got two or three stakeholders in your box and in the book, we actually have a four box process where we encourage you to write in names. Once you got two or three names in your stakeholder box, then you want to fill in partners. And what a partner is somebody that is actually. Gonna benefit if you do well. So usually financially if you're going into business, this might be a supplier. So if you're selling a lot of something and they're supplying you with that something, then they're gonna be, selling a lot of it too. So they're vested in your success. These might be things, people that you're going to use, if you're an agent real estate agent would be a mortgage officer title company, it would be a people that you're gonna use you're gonna give them business because you're getting business. So again, that, that would be your partners. The next part is your mentors and your mentors. . Contrary to prop your belief. They're not like this old guy with long white hair and a long beard and a pipe or something sitting underneath the big Oak tree on top of a hill. These are not like really wise old guys. These mentors are very tactical, very specific. So let's say you're gonna open up a. Gas station, right? You're gonna be an independent gas station owner. A mentor would be somebody else who has opened up an independent gas station and were an independent franchise. Let's say, who's done it before, maybe still in the field with it. Maybe he's done it four or five times before who you know is profit. Who's doing it right. Who's making money from it and successful. Basically someone with a proven track record. That would be your mentor. Not someone that's gonna give you strategic advice. Someone's gonna give tactical advice. Dude, you gotta put the beef jerky in this row when people walk up because I make two bucks per thing of beef jerky, where the bubble gum, I only make 12 cents, whatever, exactly. Stuff like that. And then the next. Important thing is coaches. Now what's the difference between a coach and a mentor where coach is more somebody like who's there for accountability. We talk in GoBundance a lot about, accountability, extreme accountability. . That's what a coach is. They're like Bryan Let's say you're opening up a Domino's pizza there. Like Brian, did you go to, you know, 17 schools today and talk to the PTA person or whatever about the fundraiser sponsor. Yeah. Sponsoring. You're gonna bring 10 pizzas and you're gonna give 'em a discount or whatever, did you do that? They're gonna make you work, make you reap. \ cuz you reap what you sow, right? So they're gonna make you get out and hustle and it, so their accountability that's what a coach is. And once you have all four of those and you got a couple of names in each box, that's a key thing. That's gonna keep you from failing to answer your question.

And I like that. It always reverts back to just teamwork and your people, because there's a phrase that you guys say, and we say Ingo buns all the time where it's go fast, go alone, go far, go together. And that's literally that over and over again is building up that team. Let's talk to that person right now. That's listening to this show of which there are many and they are driving right now. They're listening to this and they're driving to their job and they want be a case study in this book. They wanna be one of the chapters where you say this is a guy or a girl that freaking did it. What's something that they can do today to take that first step and get onto that first trapeze that you talk about in chapter

one. That's a great question. The first chapter we have in the book is actually admitting that it is hard. People don't wanna admit that it's hard, they wanna look at these people on shark tank and be like, oh, the ingenuity is easy. I just gotta come up with the idea and I'm gonna be a millionaire. Yeah. Or I'm gonna just post silly photos on Instagram and get a bunch of followers and I'm gonna get paid for that. It just. Rare. I know a guy that's been doing YouTube for 10 years and literally has one with 800,000 of views on YouTube. And he just started getting paid last week. Like my point is that stuff is so hard and it takes forever. To do so you can't assume that's gonna be the case. You have to assume that it's gonna be hard as hell. And it's gonna be scary as hell, but knowing that upfront is gonna get you to work harder and knowing that upfront is gonna get you not to take it lightly so that and I, so I think that would be the first step is simply admitting it obviously then there's, building the team we have something called failure questions that we ask people to ask. And like the first question is the cliche question. It's like an Anthony Robbins question. What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? And it's a great journaling exercise. But it's really not the prominent question we want you to answer because anybody could answer that and go, oh, I do this. And then, I would do this and it's too easy that the, by only answering that question you have a good chance of failing. So we asked the question, what would you do if you did fail? And a lot of times when people answer that question, they like. My boss really loves me and she's gonna be devastated when I quit. So I could probably go back to her and she'd hire me back in a heartbeat. Or, it's no big deal. Like people think, oh my God, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be, begging for change with the meth heads on the street, living in a car and all that's not gonna happen. They on you take up meth. Yeah, exactly. Unless you take up meth, that's not gonna happen. So yeah. That's unrealistic generally, if you do fail, it's not as bad. It's all in your head, and then the question which really messes people up that we ask, what we tell 'em to ask is, am I already failing? Like literally if I died Tomar, if I got tapped on a should.

00 AM tomorrow by God and had to go, am I gonna get up there and be like, damn I did not become the man that I wanted to become. I did not become the woman that I had the potential to become. I did not fulfill, what I could have done. I played small, you know that, that's the question. Am I already. Because everyone thinks they're gonna live forever and that they'll do it someday, yeah.

But we're not guaranteed anything. No. And I love that you're saying all this and especially circling back to that power of your team that you're establishing because I've tried to quit multiple times. So I've been a multiple time quitter. First time I quit, I went for I left my corporate job to go sell. that was two years ago. And so I compare it to leaving whiskey, leaving an alcohol problem and picking up cocaine instead. Nah, cause you're like, you're leaving one bad thing. You're getting a worse thing. Yeah. And that's fascinating. Yeah. I didn't make it there. And I ended up crawling with my tail tucked between my legs back to the old job cuz they took me back and they said, we're gonna carve out a new territory for you. And I did it all by myself because what I did wrong and I can give to people that hits exactly what you're saying is I did not have a team around me that was helping with this. Instead, what I was doing was I was bitching to other people I worked with and that's where I messed up. That's what I would not recommend people doing is going to the guy that's in the cubicle next to you and saying sucks. We need to get outta here because they're gonna bring you back down. It's like the crab's in a bucket analogy. Course. They're gonna bring it right back

down. Misery

loves company. So what's some advice that you can give. As we close this out to people that are looking for that for, and they're looking for those people and maybe they don't have them immediately in their life right now, and families telling them, Hey, don't leave that job because that's security and that's safety. We can't imagine you leaving that job. How can people find that support system? Maybe some actionable stuff people can use because that's hard, man.

Founding abundance. Yeah. That's hard. I guess that's what I would say. Yeah. It's find groups like abundance find groups of people that, that will eventually become stakeholders. A stakeholder is definitely somebody who, it certainly could be a best friend or a really good friend. If you don't have the stakeholder, now that it's gonna be like, Hey, Brian, I believe in you, you can do this. Then you gotta find that stakeholder and you could do that by joining things like abundance or any, anything where you could make friends or create relationships and think about there's gotta be somebody maybe in your family. It's there's, there might be one vocal person that's telling you not to, but there's probably somebody else that you could quietly go to and they'd be like, hell yeah, man, you should do. I mean in every family, there's a rich uncle or somebody,

Person crazy enough to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. There's always

one. At least. I love it, man. I love it. And that's good advice. And that's the advice that you gave and that you give, and I can say for myself, for people that are listening, you need to buy the freaking book and I'll. To get the book here in a second. But the reason I tell y'all got you guys that are listening to go by the book is because I was literally this person I've been through every single character arc that Pat's talking about. I was that guy that was the corporate guy. And that's all I thought that life was. And I came to that version that this is a massive suck of. And like you said, you're already failing because you're not living up to your potential. And then surrounding myself with you guys is the reason that I was able to do what I did and do what was scar as shit and go hop on a one way flight, doing this interview from Barcelona. And this is where I live right now. Last. So pat, where can people go find this book? Where can they go get it today? Because they're not gonna wait another day to get this

book? Yep. A couple of things. Brian bigger pockets.com back slash quitters is, where the book is at now. We also have a really cool and effective and proven we've had 11 people go through this course. Course of handholding. If you read the book and you're like, Hey, I want more I wanna join a club and I wanna find people that can hold me accountable, like coaches, like that last block. We did create something called quitters club.com. You can get more information on coaching.

Perfect. And then that scratches two inches because you get the book and then you also get the coaching alongside it. So then maybe these coaches can be part of your core four that he's talking about with those squares that you can use to, to make that jump, jump off the freaking cliff and then grab that first trapeze. So pat, thank you for everything, man. Sincerely. All

right, Brian. My pleasure. Thanks for having.

It's been awesome and it's been a great journey. And with that, that has been pat Hyman and Brian Lubin with the action academy podcast signed and off.