From Anesthesia to Abundance: $160 Million at 31 Years Old w/ Matt Onofrio

All right, Matt, we just prevented 20 minutes of pure gasoline fire from being lost in the stratosphere. I almost was selfish and just had a conversation with you off camera, off mic for a bit, but then I remembered there are people, Matt, that we need to help today. That's right. And they're demanding mat. They're asking for mat. So I have to oblige them so

good to

be here, man. Yeah. It's fantastic to have you, man. It's been awesome. Watching your journey and watching you go through this entire path that you've been doing. , it's been amazing watching your trajectory. And as I have been doing, all of my coaching work and we can talk a little bit about coaching mentorship. My, my skew of what is possible and what is impossible is drastically changing on a week to week basis. Tell me about your relationship with possible and impossible, what's even impossible anymore to you.

I don't really think, I think we're limitless beings, right? So I think that there, there isn't anything that's impossible. I think it's more about some of the, just some of the discussions I've been thinking more about our values and purpose, because I think purpose is what drives you to do impossible things. So I think if you can connect with something deeper than numbers and you can connect with. One of the things we're working on in my business is core values. And some people blow these off what are your core values as a person? And then what is your purpose and mission? And that'll lead you to be able to do those things. And I think, for somebody when you're setting goals, I think you have these certain stretch goals of like, Hey, I'm going to put out, I'm going to find where my possible is. And then I'm going to stretch a little bit past that. So when you start, you may not want to put it out so far, you have to be able to connect with the goal, but it doesn't have to seem possible. It's all about belief in the mind and imagination is a very powerful thing and something that might, you know, one of the books I love thinking grow rich is the subconscious, right? So you have to trick your subconscious into believing that it's possible. And even then it's like a present reality and identity. And so for me, one of the easiest ways that I've been able to do that is surround yourself with other people where they're like, oh yeah, this is what I do. Or this is who I am. For instance, there's different masterminds, right? You have a, GoBundance kind of a credit investor level, then a Champion's at five and then a tiger at 10 and then our 360 at a house. And, it was just very interesting as I would get into those groups. You just turn the temperature up on, what you would think as possible so that, and I think that one year you will overestimate what you can do and you will underestimate what you can do in five years. So I feel like a three-year target when you're deciding whatever you're going to do is a really great time horizon to keep you engaged with your goals.

Okay. , so there's different levels of everything, right? So no matter who you are, there's someone, a step, two steps, three steps, 10 steps beneath you. That's holy crap, that guy is killing it. And so even amongst our group and GoBundance, we have guys that are murdering it. We have guys that are growing million dollars a month. We have guys that are growing millions of dollars. You're growing millions of dollars, the deal. And I know that we'll get into your backstory here, but the long and short of it is like, how long has this relationship been with real estate, three years, four years with you

with triple net real estate. It's May 16th, 2019 check that who's counting. Yeah, that's right. Okay.

So three years. And then what's your balance sheet look like to the degree that you're comfortable with sharing? Of course.

Yeah. I was in school when I started, so I had my first deal. I've had probably about $80,000 and, I would say I'm somewhere north of 115 million right now.

Well, Obviously you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth to start at 80,000. So everything that you say from now is invalidated. So I'm setting the stage here for you. Listen, if you're listening in the car, buckle the seatbelt a little bit tired. Yeah, go get you another coffee, pause this right now. Grab you another coffee because you need to be fully clear and fully present for what we're about to get into. And the conversation we're about to get into, to set the stage for Matt here. If you didn't hear 80,000 net worth to 150 million in four years, and you are how old? My friend? 30, 30, 30. Okay, cool. So we're talking about goal setting and you've got David Osborne doing his goal setting, and he's the master of goal setting and blowing past limiting beliefs, blowing past projections of what reality is. I really want to stick here with you because you operate from an external viewpoint, very seamlessly and fluid, and you seem to just blow past targets that people work their entire life to get to within month. I really want to stick on this and figure out what it is that you do, any specific practices, resources, mentorships that you had to get your mindset. Flexible to allow for all of this abundance to come. Does any of that make sense to you? I'm hoping so.

Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is you cast vision as a visionary with my company, now I have 12 staff, right? So to go from initially, you'll start doing deals and there'll be transactional in nature. And then when you get to people who create a lot of wealth, it's about growing a business and it's about now we've moved from an Eliana deal to EBITDA. And what is the valuation of a company? And you start to think how a business owner thinks. And I think for me, I set a dream and these goals and intentions, but then I would disconnect from it. So when I have roadblocks, so you're going to have, I had five today, right? It may seem. Seamless, but I think that, problem solving, if you can learn how to solve problems, right? It's that age old knowledge, money and hustle, the three sides of the triangle. And one of the reason is I didn't have a lot of money when it started, but I had knowledge and hustle, those bigger problems you can solve the more the more well you're going to be compensated. If you look at people like a Jesse Itzler right. He's married to Sarah Blakely who just sold Spanx for a billion dollars, or Jamie Kern, Lima, who just sold her skincare company for a billion dollars. , it's very interesting how they went, and solved the problem he had next jet. So instead, Brian, a private plane, they would give them subscription models or some of the GoBundance guys are going to go to Necker. What did Richard Branson do? He went and he saw this problem and he created this idea of I'm going to rent a bunch of planes. And if it doesn't work, I'm just going to give them all back. Right. It's brilliant. So for the GoBundance guys, I think that you can set the dream and intention, but then you step back and you're like, okay what problems do I have around me that I can start solving? A lot of us are real estate related. But you start by having mentors and mentors for strategy, and a coach is for mindset. Right. And they're very different. So a lot of people they get one person. And what I've realized is okay, I need like a therapist for like, if I have anxiety or if I need like a dietician for my right eye, I need a specialist for those different areas. So peak performance. You're not going to get there with one person. You need a community and a tribe, and you need people to think like you, because , I had somebody who believed in me. So if you had somebody in your corner who was like, when you told them. That your dream of owning $50 million of real estate or whatever the number is. And they're like, oh yeah, of course, you're going to own that. I believe in you right. And that's why I think, if you're single or whatever, make sure that, that partner, that you're, going to be with that they believe in you. Right. Cause I think a lot of people, you have people who are married and then they start having those, difference in believing what's possible versus impossible. So anyways, I think the biggest answer of why I've had success is momentum. a lot of people, it's very underrated concept. And if you're going to do something quickly, you have to have an energy and a force that's behind you and I've got momentum, right? I mean, If you look at Steph Curry and his team the guys who win and win and win, it's just, it's kinda like they get it in their mind. Yeah, this is what we do. So if you can stack those smallest wins and they can start as small as I make my bed every morning. And I do what I say, I'm going to do., I write my goals and intentions. I call this many brokers. And if you can keep the promises that you make to yourself right? It's this concept. I believe, and I can sit with myself and really believe that in three years I'm going to be a billionaire, like that's going to happen and it's already happened. So I think from a mindset standpoint, it's like, what am I doing? That's causing resistance to me having it or to wanting it. Or if I can get those there, then I just need to let time bring it to me. And then you need the strategy, people around who've done it, right? , there is a concept of pay to play, right? And so maybe you, whether it's helping a broker just get paid a commission, Ziglar would say, I can have anything I want in life. If I help enough other people get what they want. So when we get into deal structure, we can talk about different ways that you can help solve people's problems. If you look at anybody who, has that any success they're gonna have a tax problem, or they're gonna, they're gonna have money to invest, or you can teach them how to invest. Or like, when I started early on , everybody knows somebody around them who has equity built up in their home, a good pull, a line of credit, at 4%. So then I can pay them eight to 10%. All of a sudden they win. I win. And I'm, that's no money down a strategy. So when you start looking for the deals, when you start looking for those opportunities, it'll, they will absolutely come to you when you're in alignment with them. Yeah.

Something that you said there , really stood out to me. Tony Robbins. I know you're big with Tony. Tony Robbins has a quote he said problems, aren't problems, or obstacles that are earned. When in the business context, obviously you have relationships, you have sickness stuff that you can't control. That's called life. But when it comes to business, you want to have big problems. They're just they're obstacles that are going to be in the way, because whenever you're trying to do really big things, big obstacles are obviously going to occur. So that made me think about that. When you said that, has this always been the way that you remember yourself being Y. Or are there any specific practices or friction points that you can remember maybe where some practices were able to help you blow past that? Because I know that one of the most common beliefs is people end up putting a ceiling on themselves, and it's very difficult to blow past like your money framework to maybe where you're like, oh, I'm a $10,000 a month guy. Holy shit. I'm making $50,000 a month. Oh my God, I'm making a hundred thousand dollars a month. And then they find some way to either simmer there or self-sabotage before they're able to make a million dollars a month or $10 million a month. Is there any specific tangible practices that you use or resources you can give from whatever that friction occurs about how you can break through that?

Yeah. So I think that staying in motion. So for me, as I've continued to grow a business, Hal Elrod is in my go Potter ride. So get, you know, a miracle morning, , I love my pot. It's and we've got Dr. Tom burns. He wrote the rich doctor and how and I yeah, it's great. And I think that just those simple things that used to start out, a lot of guys they're like, it's as much, what you take out is what you put in and it's, don't be listening to news. Don't be watching TV. CEOs on average are reading five books. What are you putting in that you're going to get out? I'm, I've got a stack of books that I'm reading right now. And one of them that I'm, I cracked open last night is about how to grow a business. And it's from zero to a hundred million flat and not, no time at all. And you're sitting and you're getting in the mind of these people, that this is what they do. Right. I listened to podcasts. I still listen to a lot of podcasts and Dean Graziosi sometimes I'll listen to bigger pockets. Those kinds of things that just feed you so pure in an area where you don't have a bunch of great Gabon and skies or whatever, you've got to find a way to build your community. And you can do that through podcasts or reading those kinds of things. And, I think. I also . You won't do it. Long-term if it's just for money, I've got, plenty of cash, you know, we're at this point to where

a million, 425,000, and he just, he just showed us a count. That's what he uses on the roulette table.

And yeah, I have more than other accounts and I never thought that would be possible. I never thought my total liquid is 43 million right now. I think that I started early on, you've got a couple of things you got to watch. If you're going to get momentum. You got to start small, you start with those small things and then you start doing these little deals and it's this concept of the stack. So just always try to double what you're currently doing. Right? So in your habits, you try to get 1% better. Every time, people are really good, they're small changes, right? Like for me, I want to get a speaking coach and I want to get a little bit better and I want to get better at my branding and my messaging. So that's why I'm hiring a media team. What are those little things that, that can just dial me in a little bit better? And the separator between the people that are really great and the, the people that are just that notch above it, it starts to become a large difference. But yeah, those are some of the strategies that I use. And then I think when you have momentum now every morning at eight 30, I got 12 people waiting for me to talk about my business and they're driving my business now. So that, and we're continuing to build that out. And one of the, one of the thoughts in the business book I was reading is you can only effectively communicate with seven people. So as you're building a company, you have to start to think about that, of how am I going to build and lead people. So in the same way, I levered money early on. Now I have to leverage people. So if my time was, is worth 150, 200 hours of CRN, It's worth well over 30,000 an hour now. And so I think when you start to view yourself that way, it starts to become stupid. And the problem is it's like you have to be able to put boundaries around that. Okay. Maybe eight to five, I'm using that kind of a mindset. But when I'm with my loved ones, I can't sit and think about this car, this was $120,000 evening to spend three hours. You know what I mean? So I think that one of the things you have to work on is like compartmentalizing, right? You have. Be able to pocket some of it and be like, okay, this is who I am in business. And when I'm with the company, this is who I'm going to be with loved ones. I'm going to create margin because during margin and those kinds of magical moments, when I travel, that's what I'm going to get a lot of ideas. Or it makes you think through how can I do, how can I do more with less? So for me, I made a shift at first, it was like, I don't do deals under a million dollars. Then it was 5 million. Now I don't do deals under $10 million. And all of a sudden it con it compounds. So I'm not going to do a deal where, I can't increase my net worth by a million dollars and I'm not going to do something that's under eight figure. Grant Cardon would say it this way, that like the deals that he does, you have like rich, wealthy, super wealthy. And then I think he had like ultra wealthy and that's, Vanguard, trillion dollar fund, Blackstone, . And in making those jumps, just being able to see it and be cognizant and an a self-awareness not only of, okay where am I here? And then how do I get into the next bucket? And being able to remove yourself and work on the business. I'm hiring a third-party search firm, who's out high. You know, we, We hired a CEO, always started, we'll do a CEO, CFO, we're getting acquisitions guys. And, I think that when you think about it, that way, I'm at a point now where, I've got a multi seven figure payroll for my staff. And I never would've thought I would've been able to do that. But now I'm thinking like, I can't imagine not doing that of how much I would lose. So is it scary to you if you if Brian has a $5 million package. You know what I mean now? That might be scary right now, but not if your revenues were what. So I think that you, when you put yourself around other people where that's normal, then all of a sudden you heat that up. Okay.

So yeah, that's a lot let's break it down. I'll try to give the 30 seconds to knots of what you said. . So hire a coach, hire specialists, make sure to have every single area covered. If you want to have a personal trainer hire personal trainer and a dietician, don't have your therapist, but your dietician hire a coach, hire a mentor in the specific vehicle that you choose and be in rooms that are challenging. You. It's almost what would be the word? It'd be like a comparative, , like a challenging competitiveness is like being able to be not going against each other, but being able to be in that room to be like, He just hit a hundred million this year. I want to hit them a hundred million this year because I can see it's possible. I can see the goalpost is right there. So a couple more mindset questions for you because I really want to dive into this and I know the value of this and you before we get into the business. So for somebody starting off, is this something that you would recommend to be doing from square one? Before the cash flow is coming? Maybe it's someone that's got, 10, 20, 30,000 in the bank account, maybe 5,000 in the bank account. They're starting on this journey. Is this advice that you would give for them to go ahead and maybe just grab a credit card and be like, Hey, I'm hiring the best coach. Hey, I'm going to make an investment to hire the best mentor. I'm going to make an investment to pay for that mastermind group. Is that advice that you would give before the cashflow is there or is this something that you would. And have some formation and ground to have underneath you before you begin this. I'm curious.

Yeah. So I'm an investor, right? And as an investor, we think about investing in ourselves. I think you start out like Dave Ramsey advice is pretty good for people who don't have money. Don't go negative. So I, in my book, I have three stages of financial freedom. I talk about one is like early fire where your passive income exceeds your expenses and that. And that can be manipulated, right? Because a lot of us can live on a little and then there's like fat fire where now I replaced whatever income I had. And I'm probably not paying tax because it's passive income. And then I have legacy fire, which kind of takes that up. So I would say, yeah, you're not gonna, I wouldn't come in and have the coaches and staff and payroll that I have right now. I had to step up to that. So I think a great way to do that is. Get a partner. If you can get yourself around other people and find a way to provide value to them. My first deal, it was 20% owner and I didn't put any money down so most people can do that. And the books are free. Books are 20, 30 bucks. So rather than going sign up for guru type stuff, if there's not a way that I can do a trade, or maybe you work for them, some are volunteer, maybe go to the event and volunteer at it and say, Hey, can I get it? I got it. Whatever. Like I'm not a big, go out and use a credit card, a thing. That's not how I am, but I don't think that you have to shortcut yourself of where you start. So if you're going to start alone, I would start small to mitigate risks. That's why a lot of people start in homes. Cause you can put three to 5% down. There's almost zero liability. So I don't, I think if you want to start house hacking is a great way to start get your feet wet, those kinds of things. If you want to start bigger, you probably need to start with a partner or you need to really just make sure that you know what you're doing or have somebody that you really trust. If you're going to go out and raise money and put somebody else's money at risk. But, that's, early on, that's the kind of stuff that we do, so I think if you can get the right team around you, that there's no reason to level and I've leveled jumped a lot, I've leveled jumped by, , maybe it's just because I've always been an old soul, but I hang out with guys that are a lot of times in their fifties to seventies. And, maybe that was because I just, I've always, I'm always been a hard worker. So I think that, that's one way to, to get past that. And then I think that it's realizing that some of that stuff is for a season. Maybe you're going to have a coach for a year and you learn what they are. And it says, you know, Student is ready. The teacher appears, but I think that there's this concept of the bridge, . Most people are just, most entrepreneurs are add and where they fall apart is they're out trying to flip a house while they're trying to raise for an apartment building while they're trying to read on triple net. And they're trying to, intern to do self storage and they're just all over the place. So if you can pick that one thing and stick with it, I think that's really how you get enough reps in to be good. And I think that's where you can come to the point of mastery. So I think that in finding financial freedom for me, and I'm telling this to myself, even still of, if I want to become a billionaire, yeah. I can be out and doing everything right. Because I have the access to do that. But if I stick with my one thing, that's more likely going to get me there. Riches are in the niches and it's this concept of scarcity. And what I like about real estate, that's different than the stock market is the buildings we buy. There's only one of them. There's only one in that location. Whereas if I go on and invest in stocks, like anybody has access to that. It was the same thing. When I got into medicine, most people can't make it through all the schooling. So they're, you're paid more on the other side. So I think finding areas where there's a higher bar to entry, it may seem tough and you don't want to do it. But boy, when you break through, it's way more lucrative than dog piling, everybody. On the contrary and investing, right? So that's why right now I feel like I'm in, in an area where most people run to housing and self-storage and mobile home parks, and I'm going to triple-net therefore I get higher yields. Therefore I get higher growth and I'm rewarded for that. Now you have to be, you have to be do your due diligence. You have to really understand the asset types, Manny Cashman, who I love, he, you probably know him. He's the guy who has a bunch of cars and that kind of thing. He's bought like the same office building three times in a row. And it's just amazing where he'll like, it's, he really understands what he's doing. And so I, I think that's what I would say is rather than have a new story that you're telling people have an old story that you tell to new people, and it's the concept of be boring almost like as if you can get down and, do that thing. If I look at Joe Fairless, I'm going to go on Joe Fairless podcast to the best ever, conference or whatever the best ever commercial real estate podcast. He's done a podcast every single day. And now he went from zero. I know his performance coaches, Trevor McGregor. He now has 1.4 billion assets under management. The guy's probably got at least a five to $700 million net worth. Okay. At this point. And he's probably mid to late. And he did it because he was consistent and he had momentum any, he picked his bridge and he just chop, chop, chop, and it's, compound pounding over time, the water hitting the rocks and you just kinda eventually it gives through. And I think the more that you can get accountability and get people around you that you just keep showing up every day. And that's why they've got what David Osborne does is amazing. Cause he's the ultra habit tracker a guy and those habits dictate who you become.

Okay. Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, and I had David on this show as well, so it's cool to hear the similarities and like the things that are always sticking out between all of these and then like for people listening, I'm going to have detailed show notes and show descriptions of all of this that he's going over and any resources that we're talking about. So now Matt, I want to take you on really fun little trick here, man. So we've gone through some mindset stuff. I want to go into the wonderful world at triple net. Lease investing commercial properties. This is where I want to go. Next. I'm done playing small. I'm going to get one more house hack just because I've got to do it while I've got my W2. And then I'm going to get out of that. I'm jumping into freaking ship when that you've got a smile on your face. So let's go ahead and start with why triple. And talk about how much that you love paying taxes.

I a net lease for people who don't understand that means the tenant pays their own taxes, insurance, property management maintenance and repairs. Those are passed through to the tenant. So we had this very stable stream of income. That is credit worthy. And those it's usually been institutions, funds, REITs, and old white haired guys that have owned these properties. And it's the, what you graduate to at the end, right? It's the doctorate, if you will, of real estate. And the bar has been fairly high, you got to have a lot of money, you can get into them, they're not usually the good deals aren't marketed, they're just people it's pocket listings, people trade them, those kinds of things. So it's a hard barrier to entry, but on the other side, it's extremely it doesn't take your time at all. So it's very passive. They're scalable. And you've got the best renters that are renting from you in that category, right? So it's the ultimate, if you will. Four mindset shifts I talk about in the book are active to passive income. We talk about cashflow to net worth. We talk about six figures to seven and beyond, and then we talk about debt negative to debt positive and what those means. What I preach is the cashflow quadrant age move from the E quadrant to the I quadrant right. Of become an investor and the investor can pay zero tax. If they're smart smarts, that may be somewhat state-specific. But you can really lower your tax liability and that's your biggest expense. And then the second is cashflow to net worth. And I did that. It's edgy, right? A lot of people aren't going to like. But once you have enough cashflow to replace your expenses, net worth is really what it's about, because if you can increase your net worth, you CA the cashflow will follow. And having telling people to fill out a personal financial statement, it was something that I did early on, and I still do, every quarter. Sometimes sooner, if I got to get a loan or those kinds of things, It helped me really understand getting to that kind of know, fat fire and then legacy wealth of, okay. If I'm from a portfolio standpoint, if I'm, my net worth is 150 million, what's my passive income. And it's multi seven figures. Now that would be very difficult to achieve if you were taking traditional means of investing of I'm going to get 500 bucks a door on a house , and it depends on what your goals are, right? I If your goal is don't make 50,000 a year, maybe you do want 10 homes that cashflow 500 bucks a door or whatever. That may be, use the 10 owner-occupant loans or whatever, but anyway, so think filling that out and then just thinking bigger, right? That's seven, six to seven figures and beyond. Like just add a zero. What does that feel like? You know what I mean? It's no it's the same effort, right? It's the same. So if I'm going to be here and I'm going to show up and eventually you get far enough up, kinda that climbing wall, if you will, that, okay. Now we don't have harnesses anyway. You know what I mean? It's let's go big. And so I think that a lot of times you have this perceived sense of. Just fear. And, fear, one of my coaches would say, it's false evidence appearing real. So it's like this concept the elephant that's on a leash around the tree. Then you take the leash off and he just sits and walks around the tree. And it's just okay, this is what's known. It's, what's comfortable. And even if I'm living in a world that I don't want to live in and I'm going to stay there, just because that's comfortable to me. So I want to be the voice of just come on out come on out. It's going to be okay. You know? And then that last point is just debt as an asset. And this is a contrary and approach, but the more income producing debt I can get on my books, the wealthier I'm going to become. And Andrew Carnegie said, if it's paying a million bucks off in real estate, it's the easiest way to become a millionaire because your tenants are paying it off. That theory would hold true with five, 10, a hundred million. So I'm at a point of if I can. Debt at sub 4% and CPI, or inflation's at 7%, give me as much as I possibly can get, it's I'm going to undercut inflation and cash is trash when it's just a roading. So that being said, I think they're one of the reasons I've been able to grow as I've had access to liquidity. And people don't think I've had both the real estate side and the banking side. I understand how to get lines of credit. I understand how to get second mortgages. I understand how to raise money. I understand how to do bridge financing. I understand how to, close a property and pull all my money out immediately. And so I think when you see debt as a currency in and of itself, that you aren't scared of it anymore, and I'm a manager of the debt and it's emotional. Anytime you buy something, you're making an emotional decision. Okay. So if you can try to take a step back and disconnect from the, how much is my mortgage payment a month and an M and this like panic inferior wait while my tenants are paying and got good leases, my rents are under market and bought under replacement value of got good traffic counts, good foot traffic counts. I got good store sales. My rent goes up and you, when you start to get that down when others are fearful, be greedy, right. And it's that concept of continuing to invest. So those are some of the mindset shifts in the book that I think are really helpful for people.

I love it. And then a quick question, are you good for about 10 past the hour so we can really dive into the numbers. Okay. Just making sure. Okay. I'm cracking my knuckles. Let's go. All right. So we're going, I want to go cold, hard into the freaking numbers. I want to go through the deal process. I want to go with, I'm breaking this down into sections for someone that is in residential. Maybe someone has some old, maybe they've got like 20 units and multifamily. Maybe they've got 10, 20 single family homes. They're like, Hey, I'm ready to level jump. I want what Matt's doing. I want to go this triple net lease route. I want to break down like a buyer's journey and what these numbers look like and what these processes look like. Cold, hard cash. So we can be able to really drive that point home so somebody can have a roadmap. So first I want to start with the sourcing process like lead generation, because you have deals coming to you because of how your momentum with you're talking about momentum, you only get that through lead generation and deal flow. So can you talk a lot about. Your specific measures on doing lead gen and deal flow, and then how you started doing it when you are a one man shop and then how that process has evolved, any specific advice, tips, or tricks that you could give.

Yeah. So brokers are the gateway keepers. I would start, that's where I started. That's how I got my first deals. And the benefit is there kind of those rock stars know rock stars, right? And if you can get the broker, they can serve, they can flip their hats a lot more, a lot of different hats. And so the broker can keep the peace between you and the seller. If you don't know how to negotiate, you don't want to be like direct mailing and trying to get some angry, crazy seller. You'll probably just end up losing money, an attorney fees or whatever. So getting a broker who knows the market real estate is very region dependent, right? So you have to dial in a buy box and you, for that person who's starting out, you may want to go with something that's a million bucks. And, really then you've got to come up with 200 grand, right? So either you have to buy the building at a million where it can appraise at 1.2 to make up for that, downstroke, or you've got to bring in a part in that as the 200 grand or you got to raise the 200 grand. Interesting strategy we can get into is special allocation with bonus depreciation. And this is something I really love. So strategy if I was to go back, and I was like,

you've got this twinkle in your own, man.

I love it. Most people don't know this. Okay. But if I was to go back, what I would say is I would go to somebody who has a tax problem. And they're literally gonna write a sick, they're gonna write a $200,000 check to the IRS. What I would say to them is I would say, look, you give me your money. The owner usually wins, right? Equity is where you want to be in the equity side of the table. We don't really care about cashflow. Long-term right. So what you're going to do is you're going to say, I'll give you a 1% of the property, but I'll give you a special allocation of the bonus depreciation of a hundred. So get a property where you can give them enough depreciation to knock out their tax liability and then say, and then I'll just give you a eight to 10% cash on cash. Meaning you retain 90%, 99% ownership of the property. You gave them the cashflow in the depreciation, and you don't really care at that point. Cause you've got 99% of the building for. So nobody understands really how to do this, but it's really isn't because if you sell the property, they will have to recapture the bonus depreciation on their side, or you 10 31 exchange with them, defer it so that your cost basis stays down. You buy the next property, you take another round of bonus depreciation and ultimately you're deferring taxes, right? So this is a strategy that you have to think about the tax consequences long-term but one of the things that we don't have in stocks or other asset types is we get leverage, right? And we get the appreciation. And so I think that this is a strategy that people do not understand is if you go to somebody and again, this is problem solving. Let's say you're a doctor who makes 500 grand a year. Your wife stays home and she's, the kids are out of the house. They're empty nesters and she can spend two hours a day actively involved in real. All of a sudden you can take passive losses in real estate, make them active losses, which offset active income. So now I've been able to take, and I'll have the doctor not have to pay tax anymore. The money that he would have had to pay in tax, it gives to you to invest, right? So you saw his problem with the taxes. You got your problem solved with not having the cash and everybody wins at the end of the day. And then you all the property, it appreciates, you pay them off. Maybe you give them an extra point or two of at the end to say, thank you. And now you have your own money to go do your deals with and your problem solved.

So dive any resources that are available yet to dive deep into.

I don't know. I think I just picked that one up on my own, but I mean, in the book, yeah, that's right. I've got the book. Yeah. The book's coming out the insider's guide to triple net investing action bonus. That's right. That's right. I actually Ken McElroy and likely Robert Kiyosaki are going to do the forward, which I'm really excited about to have them to be able to do that together. But anyway, yeah, I think that there are a million ways. And when you start to be a real estate, not as a fixed, like the mindset of real estate of you're like, okay, let's just come at this. And how do we solve everybody's problem with the dealer? All of a sudden, you can start to get really creative of, you know, early on you, just the more equity you can get the quicker you're going to get to wherever you want to go. And especially if you can bring that person in, maybe you buy under market value and you may be able to get it. And in months turn, and if it's apartments, for me at a 14 apartment building, right? So I, I increased the rents were going laundry in the basement. I started charging for parking and four months a double the guy's money. And I got 61,000 after tax. So imagine if you had 99% of that deal, and you'd only given him the depreciation and four months of 10% interest only, instead of walking away with 61,000, I would've walked away with 250 or 300,000. Imagine that kind of that's life-changing money. And then imagine now I double it. So the next time it's 600, next time. It's 1.2, then it's two point, whatever. So it's and then you get to a point. How do I get once I have momentum? How do I keep it? And when you think of. When you think in terms of energy it's systems and processes, right? So like we have monday.com and that's our board that we run deals on. And I, have operations, I've achieved this chief operations officer. I have an operations manager, got a transaction coordinator are gonna invest relations. So you can get all those things. But we're so liquid in today's market. People have zero excuses why they can't get money. And, I, it like for, probably the three things that I would think about if I was young, as I would go to friends and family, see if they have equity in their homes, they can pull lines at 4%. And all you gotta do is get a promissory note and just say, I'll sign a promissory note. And when you can six to 10%, interest only you're paying them. They're making money that they wouldn't have otherwise made. Obviously they have to think you're competent to lend you the money, but maybe you start with a small amount. We'll be

starting with a partner to your point. If you're starting on. Don't do it so low. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to, I'm going to be liquid. My goal is to have maybe a hundred thousand myself and then have different pooled funds and then get with a competent partner helmet. Maybe I give you a ring who knows that's what you do. Okay. So you're a competent, because you have a partner because people that listen to this show are intelligent and we're going to do things the right way. So you have a partner, you go start pulling home equity lines of credit, friends and family continuing.

Yeah. And then, self-directed IRA or solo 401k. There's a ton of people that have money sitting in those accounts. And, you can get really creative there's opportunity zones, right? If they put their money, if you can get people to cash out, take capital gains, put it into an opportunity zone and, follow the rules over time. They can, it's usually like a 10 year period. You don't talk to your accountant, but even if you don't do it. You can use most people. If they see you as young and entrepreneurial, and you've done your homework and you seem trustworthy, they're going to be willing to do that for you. So you're going to be able to get them a return, that'll be able to beat the market. So I think that's a way, and then I think that joining masterminds and and GoBundance people would probably, if you paid them a point or two on the front end with 10, 12% interest, I bet you could raise money actually. So I think that may be where I would spend money. If I hit that first level, maybe I would join a mastermind or whatever. There's local REIA meetings, meet-ups those kinds of things. And I think that when you have a hunger and a thirst for that, I think it'll, it will absolutely show up. So a lot of different ways that you can get started. My book is not just about triple net. Like the mindset principles can be applied to any kind of real estate. So instead of buying one home, could you buy 10, could you buy out a portfolio? Could you give somebody that appreciation and instead of your next house that you have 10 homes, did you buy an apartment building? Could what could you, it just thinking bigger, sooner, right? So it doesn't, I think that mindset doesn't attach to a strategy. And that's the beauty of it is somebody who's a serial entrepreneur. Once you get good at it, then you understand the principles of running businesses. And then it's okay my business did a million in EBITDA, 5 million EBITDA, 50 million in EBITDA. And then what does that value that on a multiple, all of a sudden, getting to where you want to go. Isn't that challenging?

Yeah. So you're not even necessarily a triple net investor. You're just a problem solver that uses triple net. Okay. I love that. And then obviously so two questions here. So one is your, you basically alluded to broker relations are the, get one, I'll give all of finding commercial deals. Is there anything particular that you were doing in investing and for time's sake? I'll just ask you for resources for the rest of the triplet and investing, obviously with your book included, but I really want to stick to this broker relations part. Is there anything that you did specifically to really find this thing back to think back to a mat that had the 14 unit or the you're multifamily and you're first getting into commercial. What did you do to vet that broker and then do anything differently to be able to have these deals come to you first? Because there's something different there because you make it seem very easy and it is, but there's. In the context of the universe, but 99% of the people are getting hung up here. So let's talk about the broker relations and what specifically that you did to really ratchet that in.

So the MLS of commercial is craxy CoStar and LoopNet, right? So I would get on all three of those platforms and you see who is active in the market, right? You can start to see comps and you can start to see what trades, and then, that's a way you can just reach out to the brokers, got a property listed who wants to sell his property. And you're like, Hey, you know what? The you, it's a conversation. It's a relationship. But I think that calls, these guys are old. Most any good broker is gonna probably be a relationship kind of guys. So texting an email just to get a hold of them, but you want to get them on the phone and you want to tell them a story, right? And you want to build a. Really mastering the art of storytelling. And, maybe you leverage someone else's story early on. Maybe you go get a mentor or a partner and actually I have a partner and he does X, Y, or Z, or has this kind of a balance sheet or here's his proof of funds and they take you seriously. So now I have my own story, so I get on. Yeah, I did 500 million in real estate last year and here's some on my properties I've done and it's very easy for me to establish credibility and rapport early on. So if you don't have that, you may need to borrow the credibility from yeah. Borrow a story. Get good at telling yarns. And that's these commercial guys. They love hearing stories and, oh, how'd you do that? And they're deal guys. They want to hear, find a, do a deal with somebody else, get a piece of a deal and then, sit back and tell them about your deal. Yeah. This is, one of the things we've done or whatever, I Maybe you invest in an LP or even just to be like, oh I own real estate. And you can say that I own real estate and here's my partner or whatever. And then you get your story down and you're able to, it's a language it's you gotta be able to establish credibility quickly. And yeah, don't be long winded and it's a language. So if I come on and they're like what are you looking for? And you're like I don't know. Can you tell me what I'm looking for? So it's like, what, what size of a deal, what clients have, what kind of property, what class of property, what cap rate, what locations, those kinds of things. And then, and have thought about lenders too. So think about, okay, maybe you have a couple of banks in mind, local banks or credit unions or if you're using a private lender, whatever. But I think that early on that's how I was able to still establish that as I started talking to them and I realized that they all know each other. So once I get one guy, then he'll intro me to somebody else or we'll go make an offer with somebody. And, the biggest thing is don't sign an exclusive agreement with anyone it's different than residential. So what you want to do is you want to say I'm exclusive to the deal, right? I'll sign something for this deal only just, that I'm good, but usually the best brokers aren't going to make you sign anything. So if somebody tries to make you sign something, I would say that's a bad sign. That they're probably not a good broker because the good brokers don't even have time to mess around with those agreements. So I think that's something that I would do. And then long-term, the best deals a broker is paid a commission off of where the deal sells. Unless you have a relationship with that broker sometimes I'm like, Hey, I'll pay you outside of closing. If you can get this price down, right? Like I'll, you have to align interest. So if a broker is getting paid by the seller, he wants the price to be as high as possible because he's getting paid a percentage. So ultimately, if you can get a broker in your corner, so I've gotten, and how I do that is by volume. So I'll call the seller's broker, I'll establish rapport and get him as the Trojan horse on the inside, on my team. And the seller doesn't know it. That's where, and he'll like, help me force an appraisal high and help, so I think that's the biggest thing of sit down with the broker and be like, look, you helped me get this property closed. This is what I did last year. I need 10 more deals like this from you. So you helped me get this one deal. Then you can go rep me and you'll make the money 10 times over. So I think that you have to get again, what's the problem we're solving. The broker wants to get paid based on a commission, right? So that's a strategy. You can use, if it's the selling yourself, as much as you're selling a deal, you're always selling, no matter what we're doing me right now, I'm selling my book to you and you don't even know it. That's, there you go. And you got it and they'll buy it, you know? but yeah. So I think that's the biggest thing is to be able to tell a story, sell yourself, have confidence with humility. That's what's going to work with brokers, stick with brokers, right? If you can throw them a bone, if you can, if you find a deal and there's a way that they can come in and get a little piece of it and they feel like you're watching out for, I that's really good. And then you start to source your own deals, and everybody knows like 400 other people. So the power and leverage and relationships of, I talked to that broker. He knows all these other guys, property managers, leasing, brokers, all these people off market they'll. Okay.

Awesome. And then, so on the back half of this I want to go into you outside of the business because we don't hear enough about you actually on these podcasts. So we'll finish with that. But before we get to that actually formally plug your book, say the name, say what you're gonna learn from it. And then maybe list a couple of additional resources that you would recommend mentors, YouTube channels, groups, or books for people that you found most authentic and accurate with their information about triple net lease and commercial.

Yeah there's not a lot of resources out there, which is why I wrote the book, but the book is the insider's guide to triple net investing. And people can go to Matt dot on a Frio O N O F R out dot com and they there's a pre-order page. You can put your email in wild moose ventures.com is a business. You can go there, you can put your information to connect with us. So we, we see a lot of properties, so I'm a buy and hold guy. And then in addition to that, we can help people get into properties and help them. And a lot of people aren't at a level that they can work with me, but this book, I just I'm turning so many people away that I was like, Hey, I want to write this book to make sure that everybody whether they're in triple net or not, that it can affect, help them as far as resources go. I'm a big podcast guy. So I, I'm a big fan of ed. My let who's my coach, obviously. I like Dean Graziosi. I like the best ever real estate podcasts, those kinds of things. And then, I think that masterminds are really good. Commercial academy, I think is a great way for people. Those are people who are actually doing deals. So I think, the CRE circle with AJM Brit, I think is a good one. They, they're more self storage stuff, but they will get into industrial and some of those kinds of properties. So just getting around some of that energy and content is really good. But yeah, I think this book will really change the game for a lot of people.

Okay. Awesome. And I appreciate all of that. So besides that you were talking about your vivid vision before we began this, I'd like to go into that now. What's your vision for the future here, Matt?

Yeah. I started a vivid vision book. Everybody should read. That's right. And mine was to buy $50 million of real estate. And I, yeah, and I did as a three-year vision, I did it in 12 months and then I was like, whoa okay, I achieved that. What's next. And I think the biggest thing for people is to enjoy the journey because there's no end point, and it's an achieving those goals that you actually. It's really fulfilling. And I find the line of a lot of meeting. So my goal is in three years to be a billionaire. And I believe that I'll be able to do that. But I want to have I don't want to live in Eau Claire, Wisconsin during the winter anymore. I want to at least be snowbirding and be on a beach. Or I was recently in Scottsdale. I like Scottsdale or Austin, Texas, or Florida somewhere there. I'd love to be in Hawaii, but the time difference is hard, when you're running a business. So maybe I'll be fully out of the business by then, and I'll just go out there. But anyway, so that just want to, I have. I want to influence people that has nothing to do with real estate. We're working up a branding and messaging strategy. You want to keep writing books. So I'd like to sell 5 million books. I'd like to have 3 million Instagram followers. I'd like to have a private plane. I've got a lot of those kinds of material things, but I think it's also just living a really fulfilled life. And I think that you do that through growth and contribution. What are ways that we're working on coming up with a nonprofit that we're going to give to that we can plug in and give or something that we could sell and just give all the proceeds to charity, those kinds of things. So I think that, that coupled with helping my family and those close to me find financial freedom, it's given me a lot of joy and that's really where I'm headed.

I do you find yourself, you think you're going to find yourself going into the coaching sphere yourself and the.

Probably not. I'm not like, yeah. I think I like re it's about reach for me. So it's not, I don't think my highest, I think my highest and best use is maybe doing some podcasts, writing books, that kind of thing. But, I helped, I coached by having people do deals with me in that regard of I like a live deal where it really matters and we're not talking in theory land where we're working on real problems that are coming up in real time. That's been a lot more fun for me. So I guess I, I coach every day in that regard. But yeah, who knows? Maybe I would coach at some point I've I think you get to a point where you want to, put the hand down and I think it would probably be in a really select basis that I would do it if I did do it at all. Okay.

Awesome. So we both worked with Jason Drees. So I want to cast something out to where you and I are both young I'm 27. I just turned 27. You're 30. So we're, we've both have a huge Tom horizon. And let's call it what it is, the circles that you and I are both running it. And unless we get hit by a car tomorrow, which is also possible we've got like the David Sinclair's, we've got like the focus on health and well wellbeing and longevity. I wouldn't be surprised if we all make it to one 50 at this point with technology, Cassis gas, the vision out to Matt on a Frio at 45, 50 years old, 15, 20 years in the future. What kind of impact? So you're talking about being a billionaire in the next couple of years. I believe it. What kind of impact is this going to create and what kind of freaking ripple effect is this going to create in the world for good? I'm just really curious to hear your perspective because your trajectory right now is going to be life-changing. And I'm here to create a massive meteoric ripple effects. I'm curious about your kind of like ripple effect planner, if you've thought that far into the, in the future.

Yeah, definitely still something I'm thinking about. I think that for me, my faith is really important, right? So I want to be able to help others in a way that, cause you can physically help people, right? You can help them, with housing, with food, those kinds of things. I've struggled with anxiety, in the past. And it's like, how can I help people find freedom? And ways of somebody may have a lot of money, but they may be stressed out all the time, stuck in their job or this or that. So I think that helping people find financial freedom and financial literacy and helping people learn that language, I think is a huge. Thing of why I want to sell 5 million books and why I want to do those kinds of things. I was recently in a pod call with Hal rod and he sold 3 million bucks in miracle morning. He goes, there's 7 billion people that still haven't read it. And that's, he's connected to that purpose of those people living those filled lives. And he's had that experience of cancer right near death experience. And I think that creates a sense of urgency. You look at an AJS born, almost died with GaN Baret, and now he's got that sense of urgency. And so I think that while we all may think we live to 150, if I think if you live every year as is this my last year, right? Like I can live in the future. I can live in that, but I think what God's called me to right now, I've had to, I think that the why can't it be us? Why can't it be you? Why can't we be the ones who I believe that good people should be wealthy. And I believe that, imagine like grant Cardone, whatever. He's I'm not sure that I wouldn't want to be friends personally with him, he, his goal is like on 40 billion in real estate and then become president of the United States. And it's for influence. So it's a really interesting if you listen to them, but right. That's a little bit different, Tony Robbins says people have six, six needs, six human needs, a certainty, uncertainty, believe it's like loving connection. Growth. Yeah. Significance, growth, and contribution. I'm a significance guy. So I, and this is really good for the listener to think through what are some of your needs, right? Whether it's just for you, whether you're trying to be with a loved one and for me, and I'm like, I'm a significant guy, but really underneath them soft and I want loving connection. And so I think, will I ever hit some number that may know I'm going to always have the drive? And it's because I have a need of on an Enneagram, I'm a three I'm going to achievement driven kind of person. If you look at like Barack Obama, he always wanted his dad to tell him he was enough. And he had to become like the president of the free world, to be able to do, to be able to fill that, that what he had inside of him. So then helping people create that self-awareness and you know how to be the best version of them. Yeah I just think that it will be growth and contribution and trying to find ways. Who knows if it will be real estate. I don't know if it will be real estate. Maybe I'll be doing something completely different at the end of three years.

Yeah. I love it. And when you're operating at the level that you are like three years is 30 years to a normal actually, no, we'll throw that out the window. It's basically 300 years at this point you're making like $60,000 a day growing. But it's interesting that you say that I was sitting front row DJ Savoy as Platt. Are you a platinum partner with

now? I want to though.

Yeah. So a DJ is a plat, so he gave me some really good seats. So me and my girlfriend were sitting up front and Tony was doing his whole, love and growth and significance. And he was like, all right, write down what your thing is. And I was like, I'm significance and growth. So like when you're speaking with me because I'm the exact same, I'm a three on the Enneagram significance and growth driven. And I was like, proud of that. And then Tony was like, He was like, all right, cool. Now, which ones? Which ones are you? Raise your hand if you're this, raise your hand. If you're that. And I was like, oh, I'm significant Tony. And he was like, all right, now, which one do you think is the most doomed for failure? And I was like, oh, probably the connection ones, these like significance. And I was like, ah, so I found it interesting. The reason I say that, because you were talking about significance and that's awesome, but then you also mentioned growth, love connection. And he said, that's the bedrock that you need to be able to have a really, truly lasting impact, because it's like you said, like Cardone is very significance driven. We don't know him personally, but I feel like he I almost associate significance with status, so it's. I don't know, but yeah, I I feel like you've got a massive meteoric ripple effect that you're going to do. You're doing now. But now with this media team, I agree with you that the media, like what you're doing is too quiet. This media team is going to turn up the volume and I can't wait to have people start listening to it. I'm grateful to be a part of that medium for you, man. Cause it's awesome.

Thanks. I think that if we can help people find what their needs are and help them realize that they can fulfill those and maybe for people like you and I, and it's like, Hey, you're accepted. You're enough. I believe in you. If we can learn how to speak those love languages to people, I think that's what Tony does for people. I think ed does for people. I think that's what I want to do for people as well as be that, that voice calling people out like. You don't have to feel like you don't have to feel guilt or shame, or that's from the enemy. That's not you're this, there's this kind of, I'm just, I'm very excited for people to live in the kind of abundant, positive life that GoBundance is all about. And, I think that it's yeah, I'm just I think we're thinking the right way, right? It's not about dollars and cents. It's about fulfillment and significance and meaning, and that's really, what's gonna, at the end of the day, I think what, where people are going to live a truly happier life.

Yeah. And then that's like that's what drives it. Like the guy that's got something that to work for underneath is the guy that's going to take it to the fricking mountaintop. Like campaigns is a huge bow hunter. And then he works out all the time and he posts, he's a world famous bow hunter. And he posted the gym all the time, but he's he's like, I'm going to be fitter than anyone because I'm doing this. So I could be out in the mountains. It's I'm going to outwork someone 10 times out of 10, because I've got a why behind it.

It's usually the middle class that stay where they are right at the underdogs. They, haven't got a reason they've got to drive. They don't have anything to lose and it's the middle class, that really struggled to get out of there. So I think that's where it's really interesting to see, I think with your background, you probably grew up middle-class, and kudos to you for getting after. Because a lot of people can just like, when I've lived, like my parents, I'm just going to keep coasting. And so it's actually fairly difficult. And I think for the listeners, if I just want to say that we believe in you, and still believe in those people of, Hey, you can be in, do whatever you want to, so yeah. Super pumped. Yeah. And that's

why your story is so inspiring because you're a case study because even when I started my coaching with Jason, I'm like, What is because I struggled with them like, Hey, I want this goal, but I see Matt doing it. Cause I'm in the same circle as Matt. I'm like, Matt's doing this. And it's you don't want to compare yourself to a negative connotation. You want to compare yourself in like a good connotation. It's it's

the gap and the gain, right? You got up in the game, Ben Hardy. I look at that Delta of oh, this, and while I had my lights above me or Richard, Branson's 4 billion and Sam Zell is the best real estate investor ever. It's 6 billion. And it's I didn't sell it. He sold an art. If you look him up, he sold an office REIT for 39 billion to Blackstone. So if you want to be humbled, that's the guy, right? One of his quotes that I love and we can wrap up here, but he said, if you, whenever I'm thinking about, will I sell a property? Sam Zell had this quote that just is seared in my mind. And he said, If you if you wouldn't it's as if you bought it for that number, if you wouldn't accept that offer. So it's this concept of when you're thinking about selling, a lot of people will just buy and hold, but let's say you buy a property and you hold for six or 12 months and you get an offer. A lot of people are like, oh I wouldn't want to sell. It's if you wouldn't buy it that number, then you should sell. So it holds, it takes the emotion out of it. And I think that's one of that's one of the tips that's really helped me of, and I honestly have some properties that I've gotten offers on that I've been holding than I probably should sell. And so as when you think of it as an investor, then you're not as emotionally connected to things and it allows flow. Follow Sam's out. If you want to be in a triple, not stuck. Cause he's the man

we're going to go the opposite direction there. I thought you were going to say he regretted selling it. It was like a buy and hold guy.

No. I, he's had a very, he's very opportunistic in nature. But yeah he basically cause it's, it shifts it, right? Cause you're like, boy, I should hold. And over this period of time, but there's this like time value of money thing where if you can, it's hard to go broke making a profit. Yeah, definitely think he's great. But anyways, it's been great being on with you. Thank you so much for having me and we'll have to do it again.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll do another one before the billion and then we'll do a Billy episode. People can follow through, but yes, my friend and and Matt already plugged his book. When is it coming out? September. So be on the lookout for that. Hopefully I'll be having my first commercial property already knocked out by then. I can read and see what I did wrong. And then yeah, and then wild miss ventures is your company correct? And the people can reach it that way.

Yup. And Matt dot on a Frio on Instagram as well. If you just want to reach out, we'll be doing everything.

That'd be ramping up that content. Get that max out team on them. Matt brother. I appreciate you. Thank you for all that you're doing. Thank you for inspiring. Thank you for being you and so chills a cucumber while you're doing it. This was a great episode and I'm excited to keep watching you see what you're doing and just riding that wave with

your brother. Likewise, Brian, we'll see you at the top. Yes sir. Say

bye.